# Rapture vs. dying once/judgment **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 14, 2018, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rapture-vs-dying-once-judgment/806643 "2018-01-14T22:28:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![bmasters1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5e925/32.png) [@bmasters1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bmasters1)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2018, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rapture-vs-dying-once-judgment/806643/1 "2018-01-14T22:28:20Z")
The description of the Rapture that is in the book of Revelation in the Bible (IIRC, God’s true church will be taken up to meet Him in the clouds on that day, and everyone else will be left behind to the tribulation)-- do you think that such a thing contradicts Heb. 9:27, where it says that everyone is appointed a time to pass from this earth (die), and then will be judged? I think it does, because why would He appoint to all of us a time to pass from this earth (and subsequently to face the Judgment), only for John to write in Revelation that God’s true church would pass from this Earth in the Rapture, thereby not getting to heaven by a physical death? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2018, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rapture-vs-dying-once-judgment/806643/2 "2018-01-14T23:09:31Z")
Well, most Christians don’t believe in the Rapture… probably including the guy who wrote _Revelations_, who might have been the Apostle John but we’re not sure. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2018, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rapture-vs-dying-once-judgment/806643/3 "2018-01-14T23:30:01Z")
Heck, some of the quotes attributed to Jesus and the Apostles would seem to imply that the Secodn Coming would happen within the lifetimes of the people reading. But there is one major correction to make to the OP: The passage about the faithful being taken to Jesus in the clouds is _NOT_ from Revelation. It’s from Paul’s letter to the Thessalonians, in which he is arguing that when the Second Coming does happen, all the faithful, both living or dead, will be brought before the Presence of Jesus > [@](#): > > But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, about those who have died, so that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have died. For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will by no means precede those who have died. For the Lord himself, with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call and with the sound of God’s trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will be with the Lord forever. (NRSV, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17) However the point in the other passage is that in fact we ARE all mortal and must carry on under the assurance that we \*will \*die. Because we do not want to make decisions counting on that the world will end before we do. And as **smiling bandit** points out, the Rapture as described in the OP, the “Pre-tribulational Dispensation” is not a historical small-o-orthodox Christian teaching, but rather a relatively recent theological development. And even then it is even only one of at least three theories set forth by Rapture proponents (does it happen before, during or after the Tribulation – notice that presumed-Paul makes reference to the archangel’s call and the sound of the trumpet, things that presumed-John shows happening several times over along the course of the eschaton) ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rapture-vs-dying-once-judgment/806643/4 "2018-01-17T17:45:45Z")
> [@bmasters1](#): > > The description of the Rapture that is in the book of Revelation in the Bible (IIRC, God’s true church will be taken up to meet Him in the clouds on that day, and everyone else will be left behind to the tribulation)-- do you think that such a thing contradicts Heb. 9:27, where it says that everyone is appointed a time to pass from this earth (die), and then will be judged? > > I think it does, because why would He appoint to all of us a time to pass from this earth (and subsequently to face the Judgment), only for John to write in Revelation that God’s true church would pass from this Earth in the Rapture, thereby not getting to heaven by a physical death? Many Christians believe in 2 judgments. The first judgment (post death) decides whether you rest or have work to do pending the 2nd. Work, or course, means saving souls. The second judgment is where Jesus is your lawyer and handles everything for you. Since he’s the only lawyer in town, many people work out a retainer agreement with him while they are mortal thus assuring his representation at that time. That’s the big judgment, before the immortal supreme court. That decision is final. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rapture-vs-dying-once-judgment/806643/5 "2018-01-17T18:55:40Z")
There is a duality expressed in scriptures, some will die, some will not but be taken out before death and not experience it. Humans are destined to die, children of God not necessarily, though Jesus did. It is this duality that defines the state. If one clings to humanity they will die, if their godhood they will live. The Bible is full of this duality and switches freely between us being mankind (everything is meaningless), and we are God’s children (God directs our steps (thus not meaningless). The first human written about in the Bible who did not die is Enoch and that is in Genesis, before the flood. I would argue that the stoning of Stephen in Acts also is a taking out by God, as it is in line with ‘meeting the Lord in Air’ and there are other examples of those who did not die but taken out by God before death, though that experience is personal and not seen by those who witness the death of the human body as shown in the stoning of Stephan. And that’s how I see it, those who know they are God’s child will not suffer death, unless for a God like reason such as Jesus did (though one Gnostic Gospel does support Jesus may have been removed from his human body - and with the giftings of the Holy Spirit this is possible) So I don’t see it as a contradiction, because Shrodinger’s Cat is not a contradiction, it is just not normal for us to understand 2 different realities coexisting, but yet it does.