# "Ra's al Ghul" - the Arabic, not the fiction **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 20, 2005, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ras-al-ghul-the-arabic-not-the-fiction/309105 "2005-06-20T19:53:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ras-al-ghul-the-arabic-not-the-fiction/309105/1 "2005-06-20T19:53:33Z")
(I’m posting in GQ because I want to know about the linguistics, not about the Batman adversary.) Batman has an adversary called “Ra’s al Ghul” (who is featured in the current movie but has been a character in the comics for decades). In the original stories he is depicted as an Arab and his name is translated as “head of the demon.” Is this a proper translation? Is it a proper transliteration? Tell me about the linguistics. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ras-al-ghul-the-arabic-not-the-fiction/309105/2 "2005-06-20T20:27:24Z")
Not only is it a good translation, the writer who long ago came up with the name (I wasn’t reading Batman at the time, so I don’t know who – but I’m sure it was in the comics long before the animated series) stole it from astronomy – it’s the name used for the constellation of Perseus and Medusa’s Head used in arabic books, especially the translation of Ptolemy called The Almagest. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ras-al-ghul-the-arabic-not-the-fiction/309105/3 "2005-06-20T20:34:24Z")
Just in case it might be of significance in the transliteration question, I’ll note that in early issues, Ra’s al Ghul was spelled with macrons over the u and the first a. (Ra’s was created by Denny O’Neil) ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ras-al-ghul-the-arabic-not-the-fiction/309105/4 "2005-06-20T21:17:43Z")
[Here](http://www.jas.org.jo/cons.html#ara)’s a cite for what **CalMeacham** mentioned in his post. ---
**Author:** ![drewbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drewbert/32/15890_2.png) [@drewbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewbert)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ras-al-ghul-the-arabic-not-the-fiction/309105/5 "2005-06-20T23:37:34Z")
In addition, one star in Perseus, called Algol, is a variable star which visibly changes brightness over time - hence the ‘demonic’ connection. The word “ghoul” comes from this arabic phrase. [link](http://www.astro.uiuc.edu/~kaler/sow/algol.html) ---
**Author:** ![Saranga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Saranga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saranga)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ras-al-ghul-the-arabic-not-the-fiction/309105/6 "2005-06-21T00:47:56Z")
How is it supposed to be pronounced? ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ras-al-ghul-the-arabic-not-the-fiction/309105/7 "2005-06-21T00:54:07Z")
Raysh al (as in Bundy) gool (rhymes with pool). ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ras-al-ghul-the-arabic-not-the-fiction/309105/8 "2005-06-21T01:29:12Z")
> [@](#): > > In addition, one star in Perseus, called Algol, is a variable star which visibly changes brightness over time - hence the ‘demonic’ connection. > > The word “ghoul” comes from this arabic phrase. > > link You know, I wrote a book about this once… ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ras-al-ghul-the-arabic-not-the-fiction/309105/9 "2005-06-21T02:27:09Z")
What’s up with the apostrophe? I keep wanting to read it as, “Hi, I’m Ra, and this here’s my al Ghul.” ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ras-al-ghul-the-arabic-not-the-fiction/309105/10 "2005-06-21T04:17:47Z")
> [@Thudlow Boink](#): > > What’s up with the apostrophe? I keep wanting to read it as, “Hi, I’m Ra, and this here’s my al Ghul.” It’s indicative of a glottal stop. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ras-al-ghul-the-arabic-not-the-fiction/309105/11 "2005-06-21T12:05:21Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > Raysh al (as in Bundy) gool (rhymes with pool). How is it pronounced in Arabic? This version seems awfully Anglicised to me. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ras-al-ghul-the-arabic-not-the-fiction/309105/12 "2005-06-21T12:15:27Z")
Interestingly, they called him “Raysh” in the animated series, but pronounced it “Roz” (like my Aunt Rozzie) in the new movie Batman Begins. ---
**Author:** ![Bibliovore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ras-al-ghul-the-arabic-not-the-fiction/309105/13 "2005-06-21T12:36:10Z")
I’m Arabic, so I’ll bite… There really shouldn’t be a glottal stop in the first word. It’s pronounced “Rahss”, to rhyme with “Glass”. Long “a” sound sollowed by a soft, sibilant “s”. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ras-al-ghul-the-arabic-not-the-fiction/309105/14 "2005-06-21T13:52:56Z")
**cckerberos** and **Bibliovore** , the vowel /a/ in ra’s is short. It doesn’t get a macron. (The /u/ in _ghûl_ is long, however, and properly gets a macron.) The glottal stop (_hamzah_) represented by the right-handed apostrophe ’ is a consonantal sound. The left-handed apostrophe ‘To pronounce “ra’s”, you have to get used to making the glottal stop with no vowel sound after it, followed by a vowelless /s/. Originally, like all Arabic nouns, the word ended in a short final vowel, so you wouldn’t need to negotiate a cluster of two consonants ending the word. Two syllables easier to pronounce: Ra’-su. When followed by the definite article _al-_, the /a/ in al- is elided and the final short vowel from the end of the previous word plugs into the /l/. So the Classical Arabic pronunciation runs the two words together and they sound like one: ra’-sul-ghûl. When we transliterate the definite article, the standard way is to write the al- in all positions, so that it reflects the Arabic orthography better than it does the pronunciation. This is why sometimes you see the name ‘Abd Allah or ‘Abdallah, and sometimes ‘Abdullah. The final short vowel of a noun changes for different case endings when the word is grammatically inflected. Apart from an Arabic grammatical context, therefore, a word is cited in the nominative case, like Latin or Greek words. The Arabic nominative ends in -_u_, the accusative ends in _-a_, and the genitive ends in _-i_. Three vowels, three cases. The word _ghûl_ starts with the sound of the letter _[ghayn](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=311998)_, and we’ve already had a thread on that sound. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ras-al-ghul-the-arabic-not-the-fiction/309105/15 "2005-06-21T14:11:49Z")
Sorry, I meant to type above: The left-handed apostrophe ‘ transliterates the letter ‘ayn, which is a different sound from hamzah. The pronunciation “raysh” for ra’s is ridiculous. There is no way to turn the s into sh. Sometimes, in some Arabic dialects, the hamzah is elided and changed to a [y] or [w] sound. Sometimes hamzah following the vowel /a/ can be elided to make the /a/ long while the hamzah disappears. In linguistics this is called “compensatory lengthening.” (Hmm, insecure males are also known to do this…) For example, the original word _ta’rîkh_, literally meaning ‘to determine a date’, became _târîkh_ (meaning ‘chronology, history’) even in Standard Arabic. So in that case, ra’s could be pronounced râs with a long vowel in some Arabic dialects. After I just got done telling you it isn’t pronounced that way in Standard Arabic! A complicated subject, isn’t it? In Ethiopic, the cognate word _ras_ is pronounced this way. Originally meaning ‘head’, it came to mean ‘chieftain’ or ‘prince’ in Ethiopia, thus Ras Tafari. In Russian, this Arabic word was borrowed to mean ‘one’ when counting. _Ras, dva, tri…_. Because the meaning ‘beginning’ can also be derived from ‘head’. In Arabic too, ra’s can mean ‘beginning’ as well as ‘leader’. _Ra’s al-hikmah makhâfat Allâh_ is a saying that means ‘The beginning of wisdom is the fear of God.’ The Arabic word for president or boat captain _ra’îs_ is derived from the same word as _ra’s_. It’s easier to pronounce the glottal stop when it comes between two vowels like that. In Sicilian dialect, they still use the word _raisi_ for a boat captain, a sign of the influence of Arabic upon Sicilian. Raisa Gorbachev’s name likewise came from this same Arabic word, meaning ‘a female leader/captain/president’. As for _ghûl_, in Arabian folklore it was a specific type of demon that inhabited the howling wastes of the wilderness, and preyed upon the unwary human. The star name Algol got that name from Arabic, al-Ghûl, because as a variable that kept changing in magnitude it looked so weird. ---
**Author:** ![Jason\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dec6dc/32.png) [@Jason\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jason_H)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ras-al-ghul-the-arabic-not-the-fiction/309105/16 "2005-06-21T14:20:42Z")
I’ve heard it pronounced Roz and Rayz, Al and All, but ghul is usually pronounced gool. I prefer to pronounce it Roz all gool. ---
**Author:** ![Bibliovore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ras-al-ghul-the-arabic-not-the-fiction/309105/17 "2005-06-21T15:29:12Z")
Thanks, **Johanna**! That was really educational! Where did you learn so much about Arabic? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ras-al-ghul-the-arabic-not-the-fiction/309105/18 "2005-06-21T16:00:01Z")
> [@Bibliovore](#): > > Thanks, **Johanna**! That was really educational! Where did you learn so much about Arabic? 🙂 I beleive I have found his [alma mata](http://www.miskatonic-university.org/) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ras-al-ghul-the-arabic-not-the-fiction/309105/19 "2005-06-21T16:30:46Z")
Hmm … I wonder, if D.C. Comics originally put an erroneous macron over the first “a,” maybe the people who did the animated series mistook the symbol for the American schoolroom a-macron (which signifies [eI]) and that’s how they ended up with “ray” instead of “rah.” I can’t account for the “sh,” however. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ras-al-ghul-the-arabic-not-the-fiction/309105/20 "2005-06-21T17:13:21Z")
Ha ha, **Bippy** , you’re so funny, yes, I have read Lovecraft too. But please use the feminine pronouns for me. She, her, hers. Thank you. I figured out where the “raysh” pronunciation comes from. The 20th letter of the Hebrew alphabet, _resh_, is pronounced that way. It’s a Semitic cognate of the Arabic word. _Resh_ (the letter name) is a variant form of the Hebrew word for head, _rosh_. In both Hebrew words, the ancient Semitic glottal stop is still written, using the letter _aleph_, but its sound is gone, elided. Maybe someone substituted the more familiar, easier to pronounce Hebrew cognate because the Arabic word reminded them of it. DC Comics? I remember in an issue back in the 1960s Lois Lane had to take a ritual bath in a “kvimah,” which was just the Hebrew word for women’s post-menstrual purificatory bath, _mikvah_, with the letters rearranged. So the association has been set up in my mind: DC Comics\<–\>Hebrew speakers. From the _American Heritage Dictionary_, 4th ed., Appendix II, Semitic Roots: **r’š**. Common Semitic noun \*_ra’š_-, head, top. 1. RESH, from Hebrew _reš_, resh, from Aramaic _rêš_ or dialectal Phoenician \*_rêš_, head, twentieth letter of the alphabet. 2. RHO, from Greek _rhô_, from Phoenician \*_rôš_, head, twentieth letter of the Phoenician alphabet. 3. ROSH HASHANAH, from Hebrew _rô’š haš-šânâ_, beginning of the year, from _rô’š_, head, top, beginning. 4. RASTAFARIANISM, from Amharic _ras_, head, chief, prince. > [@acsenray](#): > > Is it a proper transliteration? Yes, it is. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ras-al-ghul-the-arabic-not-the-fiction/309105.md?page=2)