# Rat or mouse? N.A.F. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 18, 2010, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rat-or-mouse-n-a-f/529489 "2010-02-18T17:24:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rat-or-mouse-n-a-f/529489/41 "2010-02-20T05:01:16Z")
> [@willthekittensurvive](#): > > its a strange foto, but salazarrr(sisters kat) is now 4.5 kilograms > > [picture from a few years ago](http://s1016.photobucket.com/albums/af283/willthekitten/sdmb/?action=view¤t=salazarrr.jpg) > e.t.a. yes you may put captions on both foto’s if you want to This photo definitely has a mouse in it. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rat-or-mouse-n-a-f/529489/42 "2010-02-20T05:58:38Z")
It looks like a mouse, possibly kangaroo. By the way, I also think part of the tail is missing. Warning: if you google “kangaroo mouse” you could die of cute. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rat-or-mouse-n-a-f/529489/43 "2010-02-20T06:37:30Z")
> [@willthekittensurvive](#): > > wasn’t Moriarty a Rat in some cartoon? The Great Mouse Detective? Apparently the villain is called Ratigan in that movie. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rat-or-mouse-n-a-f/529489/44 "2010-02-20T13:00:41Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > Yeah, that’s way too big to be a mouse, at least where I live. It’s possible they grow them bigger where you are. > > However, it almost looks like there’s fur on the tail from here. That indicates something more like a gerbil (or Kangaroo Rat, roughly the same thing in the wild), which would also be bigger than a mouse: mice and rats generally have bare tails, in my understanding. FWIW, the Deer Mouse (Peromyscus Maniculatus) and her friends, the most common mouse in the wild in North America, has a hairy tail. Of course, the photo also is 100% certainly not a Deer Mouse. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rat-or-mouse-n-a-f/529489/45 "2010-02-20T13:38:40Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > FWIW, the Deer Mouse (Peromyscus Maniculatus) and her friends, the most common mouse in the wild in North America, has a hairy tail. > > Of course, the photo also is 100% certainly not a Deer Mouse. What is the most common mouse in Amsterdam? ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rat-or-mouse-n-a-f/529489/46 "2010-02-20T14:35:57Z")
> [@Khadaji](#): > > What is the most common mouse in Amsterdam? The OP’s location gives the helpful note “I am here”. I missed earlier in the thread where they posted “Amsterdam.” So never mind. ---
**Author:** ![mutantmoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a87d85/32.png) [@mutantmoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mutantmoose)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rat-or-mouse-n-a-f/529489/47 "2010-02-20T19:07:07Z")
I say rat, mainly because of the ears. Look like rat ears to me. And the tail - too thick for a mouse. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rat-or-mouse-n-a-f/529489/48 "2010-02-20T19:30:48Z")
Young rat, mainly based on the size of the head. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rat-or-mouse-n-a-f/529489/49 "2010-02-20T19:46:07Z")
I am highly familiar with mice, only barely familiar with rats. The proportions look all wrong for a mouse, so I’m going with young rat. ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rat-or-mouse-n-a-f/529489/50 "2010-02-20T20:03:13Z")
Yep. Baby rat (not necessarily a Brown rat, there’s lots of regional rat species most places) for sure, 3-5 weeks old. I’ve kept and bred and raised pet mice and rats for years. The head and feet are much too large in proportion for it to be an adult mouse of any species and the ears are set wrong. It does look a bit like a gerbil or jerboa in that picture, but the color and tail are wrong and so is the shape of it’s nose, plus what are the chances of your cat finding and killing a gerbil among the billions or mice and rats. The tail is not furry, it’s darker in color due to skin color, ‘tail wax’, and the sparse hairs that all rats have on their tail. And Brown rats which are what people think of when they hear ‘rat’ are not ‘huge’. Bigger than that, yes, but ‘giant rats’ (unless we’re talking tropical species or non-rats such as muskrats) are fictional. Males average 12oz, females 9oz. I had a big fat fancy rat once who was just over a pound, but he still fit comfortably in my one hand and I’m a small person. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rat-or-mouse-n-a-f/529489/51 "2010-02-20T20:34:08Z")
‘Tail wax’ is a phrase I never wanted to hear. ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rat-or-mouse-n-a-f/529489/52 "2010-02-20T20:42:55Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > ‘Tail wax’ is a phrase I never wanted to hear. LOL! It’s even grosser than it sounds. I used to clean my rat’s tails with a toothbrush to get it off. ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2010, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rat-or-mouse-n-a-f/529489/53 "2010-02-21T05:59:58Z")
Another vote for baby rat. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2010, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rat-or-mouse-n-a-f/529489/54 "2010-02-21T10:37:25Z")
Final answer: We don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2010, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rat-or-mouse-n-a-f/529489/55 "2010-02-21T18:59:41Z")
You may not; but I KNOW that’s not a mouse of any species. Could possibly be several kinds of rodent, but not a mouse. ---
**Author:** ![SunSandSuffering](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@SunSandSuffering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunSandSuffering)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rat-or-mouse-n-a-f/529489/56 "2010-02-23T12:58:53Z")
My Vote: Rat The tail and hands/feet look just like the many young rats I have had as pets. Only the rounded ears look slightly wrong but I am convinced it’s a rat. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rat-or-mouse-n-a-f/529489/57 "2010-02-23T14:14:36Z")
> [@rhubarbarin](#): > > Yep. Baby rat (not necessarily a Brown rat, there’s lots of regional rat species most places) for sure, 3-5 weeks old. I’ve kept and bred and raised pet mice and rats for years. The head and feet are much too large in proportion for it to be an adult mouse of any species and the ears are set wrong. It does look a bit like a gerbil or jerboa in that picture, but the color and tail are wrong and so is the shape of it’s nose, plus what are the chances of your cat finding and killing a gerbil among the billions or mice and rats. I don’t know that the color and the tail are wrong, and the shape of the nose looks plenty gerbil-like to me (considering it could also be slightly distorted by kittybites). Compare this picture of a [Mongolian Gerbil](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.petermaas.nl/gerbils/images/wildkleurgerbil.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.petermaas.nl/gerbils/appearance.htm&usg=__qtmyeWO6rXiAS5w3-CkyjsfUvZg=&h=297&w=320&sz=13&hl=en&start=21&itbs=1&tbnid=nnybFQYxBKAG-M:&tbnh=110&tbnw=118&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgerbil%26start%3D18%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D18%26tbs%3Disch:1). Look at the elongated ears and the long rear legs. If it was a younger gerbil it might not have the darker feet that my picture does; also, pet gerbils come in a huge variety of shades and color patterns. Certainly it looks much _more_ like a gerbil than the rat or mouse pictures we’ve seen so far. I vote for “escaped/feral pet gerbil.” ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rat-or-mouse-n-a-f/529489/58 "2010-02-23T15:48:34Z")
I think young rat. ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rat-or-mouse-n-a-f/529489/59 "2010-02-23T17:02:41Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > I don’t know that the color and the tail are wrong, and the shape of the nose looks plenty gerbil-like to me (considering it could also be slightly distorted by kittybites). Compare this picture of a [Mongolian Gerbil](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.petermaas.nl/gerbils/images/wildkleurgerbil.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.petermaas.nl/gerbils/appearance.htm&usg=__qtmyeWO6rXiAS5w3-CkyjsfUvZg=&h=297&w=320&sz=13&hl=en&start=21&itbs=1&tbnid=nnybFQYxBKAG-M:&tbnh=110&tbnw=118&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgerbil%26start%3D18%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D18%26tbs%3Disch:1). Look at the elongated ears and the long rear legs. If it was a younger gerbil it might not have the darker feet that my picture does; also, pet gerbils come in a huge variety of shades and color patterns. Certainly it looks much _more_ like a gerbil than the rat or mouse pictures we’ve seen so far. > > I vote for “escaped/feral pet gerbil.” To me, it doesn’t look much like that picture of a gerbil. The tail is too thin and short and not furry, and the front legs, feet, head, snout and ears are all proportionately larger. It’s much too large compared to the cat (no matter that cat’s size) to be a juvenile gerbil. It does look just like this [dead baby rat](http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2008-09-11_Dead_baby_rat.jpg) of a similar age. I don’t know why you won’t take my word as an expert, since I’ve handled 50 rats this age and am intimately aquainted with their physical characteristics. 😉 I have also had gerbils. That’s not a gerbil. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rat-or-mouse-n-a-f/529489.md?page=2)