# "Rate of abortion is highest in countries where practice is banned" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 21, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-of-abortion-is-highest-in-countries-where-practice-is-banned/610224 "2012-01-21T16:55:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-of-abortion-is-highest-in-countries-where-practice-is-banned/610224/21 "2012-01-23T05:17:30Z")
> [@florez](#): > > What are you are comparing rape, murder, and spousal abuse to ? Can you be more clear, numbers getting better, meaning ? Sorry, I had trouble understanding what you meant. To abortion. I meant that I can’t imagine that anyone would say that rape should be legal if it could be absolutely proven that legalising it would reduce the number of rapes. ---
**Author:** ![florez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9e5f3/32.png) [@florez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/florez)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-of-abortion-is-highest-in-countries-where-practice-is-banned/610224/22 "2012-01-23T05:59:45Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > To abortion. I meant that I can’t imagine that anyone would say that rape should be legal if it could be absolutely proven that legalising it would reduce the number of rapes. Rape is a forced physical assault of sexual intercourse on a woman’s body. It is not a matter of choice to be raped, and I am sure that many rape victims will agree that your comparison is not a good one. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-of-abortion-is-highest-in-countries-where-practice-is-banned/610224/23 "2012-01-23T06:35:14Z")
Well, from the POV of someone who opposes abortion, it’s also a forcible assault on the body of another. > [@](#): > > How many first world countries even prohibit abortion these days? Ireland is the only one that immediately comes to mind. Spain, Argentina and Brazil, for certain values of “first world”. ---
**Author:** ![florez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9e5f3/32.png) [@florez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/florez)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-of-abortion-is-highest-in-countries-where-practice-is-banned/610224/24 "2012-01-23T07:02:52Z")
[quote=“Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright, post:23, topic:610224”] Well, from the POV of someone who opposes abortion, it’s also a forcible assault on the body of another. It seems more like rape for an anti-choice individual to want to take away a woman’s right to control her own reproduction. In fact a rapist and an anti choice individual- working together- could take away any control a woman might have over her own body. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-of-abortion-is-highest-in-countries-where-practice-is-banned/610224/25 "2012-01-23T08:01:01Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What countries were included in the study? Most countries where abortion is illegal are not 1st world, developed countries. This is probably an apples to oranges comparison. :dubious: That sounds racist. There are plenty of people in “1st world, developed countries” who want devoutly to turn them into 3rd world, culturally conservative, nationalistic enterprises. And occasionally they succeed. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-of-abortion-is-highest-in-countries-where-practice-is-banned/610224/26 "2012-01-23T13:30:42Z")
> [@florez](#): > > Rape is a forced physical assault of sexual intercourse on a woman’s body. It is not a matter of choice to be raped, and I am sure that many rape victims will agree that your comparison is not a good one. Abortion is forced physical assault of a deadly nature on an innocent victim ,but aside from the “is abortion murder?” tangent, the point was more of a legal and practical nature. Abortion is considered horrible by some and completely acceptable by others, so I pointed to crimes that have universal hatred. My point, again, is not comparing the acts themselves, but the hypothetical case were legalising what one considers a heinous act wouold result in that heious act being perfomred less. And, please, this is not an “is abortion legal/moral/good?” thread. ---
**Author:** ![SiXSwordS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@SiXSwordS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SiXSwordS)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-of-abortion-is-highest-in-countries-where-practice-is-banned/610224/27 "2012-01-23T14:07:15Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > From **SiXSwordS** post unsafe abortions refer to something not meeting accepted medical standards > … … > > In your definition an abortion would tend to be safe if conducted in 3rd world countries by tribal medicine men (people) as long as it is acceptable to have an abortion. Just a point of clarification: the quote I used was from the article linked in the OP. **florez** ’ quote doesn’t seem to say that acceptability itself makes an abortion procedure any more or less safe, just that when abortion is illegal, people may turn to inherently unsafe behaviors in order to accomplish an abortion. Throwing oneself down a flight of stairs, ingesting poison or stabbing at one’s uterus with a knitting needle is unsafe regardless of the desired outcome. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-of-abortion-is-highest-in-countries-where-practice-is-banned/610224/28 "2012-01-23T14:34:25Z")
> [@florez](#): > > It seems more like rape for an anti-choice individual to want to take away a woman’s right to control her own reproduction. In fact a rapist and an anti choice individual- working together- could take away any control a woman might have over her own body. To _you_ and to _me_, perhaps, but you have to be able to understand the other side’s perspective. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-of-abortion-is-highest-in-countries-where-practice-is-banned/610224/29 "2012-01-23T14:40:11Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > To _you_ and to _me_, perhaps, but you have to be able to understand the other side’s perspective. In this case, their perspective is that of people motivated by malice towards women, and “opposing abortion” is only the chosen weapon of the moment. Which is why they don’t care if their acts reduce the number of abortions or not; that isn’t the point. And it’s why opposition to abortion and general poor treatment of women are closely associated. Not everyone is well meaning you know. And if you try to understand people motivated by hatred while insisting that they are well meaning, you’ll completely misunderstand them. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-of-abortion-is-highest-in-countries-where-practice-is-banned/610224/30 "2012-01-23T15:12:49Z")
> [@](#): > > And if you try to understand people motivated by hatred while insisting that they are well meaning, you’ll completely misunderstand them. No wonder I often have no idea what you are trying to say. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-of-abortion-is-highest-in-countries-where-practice-is-banned/610224/31 "2012-01-23T15:36:30Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > In this case, their perspective is that of people motivated by malice towards women, and “opposing abortion” is only the chosen weapon of the moment. Which is why they don’t care if their acts reduce the number of abortions or not; that isn’t the point. And it’s why opposition to abortion and general poor treatment of women are closely associated. > > Not everyone is well meaning you know. And if you try to understand people motivated by hatred while insisting that they are well meaning, you’ll completely misunderstand them. _blah blah blah blah christian hate women blah blah blah they only care so the can hate and hurt more blah blah blah christian only do good against their christianity blah blah blah._ As reliable as a wood-burning stove, as that great thinker James May would say. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-of-abortion-is-highest-in-countries-where-practice-is-banned/610224/32 "2012-01-23T15:51:57Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > _blah blah blah blah christian hate women blah blah blah they only care so the can hate and hurt more blah blah blah christian only do good against their christianity blah blah blah._ Since when are “anti-abortion movement” and “Christian” synonyms? And your post fails completely as a counter to anything I said. Probably because you don’t have any. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-of-abortion-is-highest-in-countries-where-practice-is-banned/610224/33 "2012-01-23T15:53:51Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Since when are “anti-abortion movement” and “Christian” synonyms? > > And your post fails completely as a counter to anything I said. Probably because you don’t have any. blah blah blah it fails blah blah blah I’m always right blah blah blah ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-of-abortion-is-highest-in-countries-where-practice-is-banned/610224/34 "2012-01-23T16:48:51Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > To abortion. I meant that I can’t imagine that anyone would say that rape should be legal if it could be absolutely proven that legalising it would reduce the number of rapes. I would. I wouldn’t believe such statistics very readily, but if it could be “absolutely proven” then yes. I would legalize rape. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-of-abortion-is-highest-in-countries-where-practice-is-banned/610224/35 "2012-01-23T18:05:00Z")
How on this planet can they determine how many abortions take place in a country where abortion is illegal? The only illegal abortions they could count would be the poor women who end up in the emergency room from botched illegal abortions. And as long as the doctor found some fetal tissue, the woman could be said to be having a miscarriage. I would also think that any doctor treating a woman in an emergency room who had to be brought in from an illegal abortion would have some compassion about not turing her over to the police. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-of-abortion-is-highest-in-countries-where-practice-is-banned/610224/36 "2012-01-23T18:30:10Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I would. > > I wouldn’t believe such statistics very readily, but if it could be “absolutely proven” then yes. I would legalize rape. Well, if you legalize it, it won’t be illegal anymore, and hence not rape. What do I win? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![florez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9e5f3/32.png) [@florez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/florez)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-of-abortion-is-highest-in-countries-where-practice-is-banned/610224/37 "2012-01-23T18:42:20Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > In this case, their perspective is that of people motivated by malice towards women, and “opposing abortion” is only the chosen weapon of the moment. Which is why they don’t care if their acts reduce the number of abortions or not; that isn’t the point. And it’s why opposition to abortion and general poor treatment of women are closely associated. > > Not everyone is well meaning you know. And if you try to understand people motivated by hatred while insisting that they are well meaning, you’ll completely misunderstand them. Thank you for making more clear the root cause again. It is sad but true. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-of-abortion-is-highest-in-countries-where-practice-is-banned/610224/38 "2012-01-23T19:04:48Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, if you legalize it, it won’t be illegal anymore, and hence not rape. What do I win? 😃 It used to be the case that marital rape was legal - but it was still rape. So you win nothing. But I agree that legal abortion probably goes hand in hand with better access to contraceptives, and that is more likely to reduce the abortion rate than the act of legalization itself. As Santorum demonstrated, opposition to abortion and birth control are often linked. Sure he says he is personally for birth control but more for the rights of states to ban it - which puts him strongly in the “women have no right to control their bodies” camp. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-of-abortion-is-highest-in-countries-where-practice-is-banned/610224/39 "2012-01-23T19:16:13Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I would. > > I wouldn’t believe such statistics very readily, but if it could be “absolutely proven” then yes. I would legalize rape. And that pretty much says a mouthful. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-of-abortion-is-highest-in-countries-where-practice-is-banned/610224/40 "2012-01-23T19:44:08Z")
It says that she’s more interested in reducing rape than in punishing rapists. What have you got against reducing rape, **OMG**? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-of-abortion-is-highest-in-countries-where-practice-is-banned/610224.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-of-abortion-is-highest-in-countries-where-practice-is-banned/610224.md?page=3)