# Rate the bullshit level of this story of a man dying in police custody. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 3, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-the-bullshit-level-of-this-story-of-a-man-dying-in-police-custody/630321 "2012-08-03T17:35:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-the-bullshit-level-of-this-story-of-a-man-dying-in-police-custody/630321/101 "2012-08-07T20:43:32Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Save that it happened, and there are much easier ways for the policemen to kill him if they wanted to. I’ve only seen one article that mentioned scales in the back of the truck. I still agree the he was trying to dump the pistol. > I\* hate\* agreeing with Loach. 🙂 Why? I’m an agreeable guy. > [@Irishman](#): > > I was trying to look up specifics on a “Terry frisk”. Earlier in the thread I was given the impression it is a limited frisk. What I read is that it is a limited search of the outer clothing for weapons. Thus it is not a full, thorough search like upon arrest. But I’m not getting more specifics to explain the difference. Yes a Terry frisk is a limited search for weapons. Once he was going to be arrested he should have been searched more thoroughly. There was something mentioned about him being searched twice. Maybe they did. But like I said upthread that involves putting your hand in someones crotch. And ass. Some people are uncomfortable with that and it leads to bad searches. Add to that maybe Carter was being cooperative and it didn’t set off any alarms with the officers. May have made them complacent and led to a sloppy search. There could be many reasons but not excuses. The gun should have been found. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-the-bullshit-level-of-this-story-of-a-man-dying-in-police-custody/630321/102 "2012-08-08T14:41:42Z")
[Arkansas Times](http://www.arktimes.com/arkansas/the-death-of-chavis-carter/Content?oid=2380221) article. The Arkansas Times is a liberal web publication from former employes of the liberal driven out of business Arkansas Gazette. Still incorrectly reporting “shot in the temple”. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-the-bullshit-level-of-this-story-of-a-man-dying-in-police-custody/630321/103 "2012-08-08T16:43:05Z")
Interesting column. Thanks for that. Wondering if the OP has changed his mind. We haven’t heard from him in a while. It is certainly possible that something will still come out that totally changes my mind but there is more information out now than there was when the thread started. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-the-bullshit-level-of-this-story-of-a-man-dying-in-police-custody/630321/104 "2012-08-08T16:50:26Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Interesting column. Thanks for that. > > Wondering if the OP has changed his mind. We haven’t heard from him in a while. It is certainly possible that something will still come out that totally changes my mind but there is more information out now than there was when the thread started. I’d be grateful if you wouldn’t imply I was drive-by posting. I don’t log on to the dope every day. I wrote upthread that I was open to the possibility that Carter’s death was not a murder or even a crime. My _initial_ response was outrage, but I’m capable of changing my mind given new information. Once I read the updated reports, I may well do so. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-the-bullshit-level-of-this-story-of-a-man-dying-in-police-custody/630321/105 "2012-08-08T17:41:25Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Still incorrectly reporting “shot in the temple”. Is that incorrectly, or merely uncorroborated? It seems to me that “suspect shot himself in the head” includes “suspect shot himself in the temple”. It seems to me that the police incident report may have felt “head” was specific enough a general description, whereas the mother was informed more specifically from the doctors who tried to treat him. Or she saw the body. “Shot in the temple” makes it sound like it was specifically aimed and placed directly for the penetrating shot, vs what it really means - the bullet entered the temple area of the skull. Maybe that’s why the cops avoided the phrasing. Sounds like from the evidence that 1. the cops were a bit sloppy with their second search (if not the first one); 2. the suspect violated rule number 1 with a firearm: never point a firearm at something you don’t want shot. As for how the officers responded to the shot, the exact sequence and reactions, etc, that remains to be explicitly demonstrated to the public. But there appears to be substantial evidence in the form of witness testimony (i.e. the two guys who were pulled over with him and were put in the back of the second officer’s car for a bit, before being let go) and video and audio recordings from the fronts of the patrol cars at minimum that corroborate the testimony as given. How frantic the reaction, how timely the call for an ambulance, how much “cover your ass” was going on from the first discovery of the victim to the call for the ambulance remains an area that can only be speculated upon at this point. It’s likely that the investigation (internal, FBI) can obtain a much more clear picture of these events from the evidence available, even if they never share those details with the press and the public. At this point, my reaction has shifted from the initial position of about 2.5 down to about zero. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-the-bullshit-level-of-this-story-of-a-man-dying-in-police-custody/630321/106 "2012-08-08T18:44:13Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I’d be grateful if you wouldn’t imply I was drive-by posting. I don’t log on to the dope every day. > > I wrote upthread that I was open to the possibility that Carter’s death was not a murder or even a crime. My _initial_ response was outrage, but I’m capable of changing my mind given new information. Once I read the updated reports, I may well do so. Infer what you want. I don’t log in every day either. And there is no rule stating you have to come back and take care of your thread. Or the two others you started more recently than this one. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-the-bullshit-level-of-this-story-of-a-man-dying-in-police-custody/630321/107 "2012-08-08T18:51:30Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Infer what you want. I don’t log in every day either. And there is no rule stating you have to come back and take care of your thread. Or the two others you started more recently than this one. Ohhhhhhh! Hey, **Skald** , want me to hold your glasses? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-the-bullshit-level-of-this-story-of-a-man-dying-in-police-custody/630321/108 "2012-08-08T19:47:32Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Infer what you want. I don’t log in every day either. And there is no rule stating you have to come back and take care of your thread. Or the two others you started more recently than this one. Seriously, dude, I conceded on the day that I opened the thread that my initial response to the news of Carter’s death might be wrong. Glancing over **carnivorousplant’s** link to the Arkansas Times article, I see more to support that view. I would still like to see the dashboard cam if it is alleged to support the officers’ version of events. It doesn’t bother me to be proved wrong. I’m not infallible. And if I thought I was both smarter and more well-informed\* than every other Doper, why would I bother with the Dope in the first place? > [@kayaker](#): > > Ohhhhhhh! Hey, **Skald** , want me to hold your glasses? I am offended by the suggestion that I would engage in fisticuffs and thus need to remove my spectacles. Everybody knows that Rhymers only attack from ambush and using ranged weapons, resorting to manual, pedal, and bludgeonary violence only when the [del]victims[/del] opponents are bound, helpless, and hanging upside down over a vat of acid. See RhymerFaq paragraph 19: > [@the RhymerFaq](#): > > Question: Is it true that Skald is a dirty coward who not only refuses to fight fair but who doesn’t understand what the fuck the phrase ‘fair fight’ is supposed to mean? > Answer: Damn skippy. \*I am prettier, though. And none of you bitches can make a cheesecake anywhere approaching mine. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-the-bullshit-level-of-this-story-of-a-man-dying-in-police-custody/630321/109 "2012-08-08T20:24:58Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Ohhhhhhh! Hey, **Skald** , want me to hold your glasses? He wears glasses? Damn I was way out of line. Sorry. Actually my original question wasn’t trying to imply anything. I was curious to see if your opinion shifted. Looking at some of the comments on the articles reminds me of truthers. "But the buildings just didn’t look right when they fell!!"I know you are more open minded than that and was wondering what your opinion now is. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-the-bullshit-level-of-this-story-of-a-man-dying-in-police-custody/630321/110 "2012-08-08T20:27:07Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > He wears glasses? Damn I was way out of line. Sorry. > > Actually my original question wasn’t trying to imply anything. I was curious to see if your opinion shifted. Looking at some of the comments on the articles reminds me of truthers. "But the buildings just didn’t look right when they fell!!"I know you are more open minded than that and was wondering what your opinion now is. I have moved to “Desirous of more data; no opinion allowed; conclusion pending.” I’ll take time to look things over in more detail later. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-the-bullshit-level-of-this-story-of-a-man-dying-in-police-custody/630321/111 "2012-08-08T21:26:34Z")
Dammit this is an official Skald poll. You can’t just add another option 3 pages in. It’s in the bylaws. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-the-bullshit-level-of-this-story-of-a-man-dying-in-police-custody/630321/112 "2012-08-08T21:30:29Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Dammit this is an official Skald poll. You can’t just add another option 3 pages in. It’s in the bylaws. That only applies to hypotheticals. And even then I can concede to being over-hasty in my initial judgment. ---
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-the-bullshit-level-of-this-story-of-a-man-dying-in-police-custody/630321/113 "2012-08-21T00:54:18Z")
Unless you believe the crime lab is in on the conspiracy too > **[Video News - CNN](https://www.cnn.com/videos)** > > Watch breaking news videos, viral videos and original video clips on CNN.com. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Just\_Ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Ed)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-the-bullshit-level-of-this-story-of-a-man-dying-in-police-custody/630321/114 "2012-08-21T11:53:26Z")
Link dump for those interested: NPR: [Death of a Handcuffed Man in a Police Car Ruled a Suicide](http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/08/20/159416070/death-of-handcuffed-man-in-police-car-ruled-a-suicide) AP (via CBS): [Chavis Carter autopsy rules handcuffed Ark. man’s death a suicide, finds multiple drugs](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57496588-504083/chavis-carter-case-medical-examiner-rules-handcuffed-mans-death-was-suicide/) LA Times: [Handcuffed – but he shot himself in head; ruling spurs outcry](http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-arkansas-handcuff-suicide-20120820,0,2540888.story) Lab Report (link from LA Times): [State Crime Lab](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/412428-chavis-carter-autopsy-report.html) Police Reconstruction Video (embedded at LA Times story): [Jonesboro police reconstruct Chavis Carter shooting](http://www.arkansasonline.com/videos/2012/aug/15/6671/) ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-the-bullshit-level-of-this-story-of-a-man-dying-in-police-custody/630321/115 "2012-08-21T12:01:07Z")
I have to say, the reconstruction video is pretty interesting. When I read “placed against the temple” I immediately thought… that’s impossible. Then I see the video, and it clearly IS possible. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-the-bullshit-level-of-this-story-of-a-man-dying-in-police-custody/630321/116 "2012-08-21T13:11:26Z")
I heard the autopsy report on [local radio](http://www.kuar.org/kuarnews/71212-crime-lab-cause-of-carter-s-death-suicide.html) this morning. Looks as though he did it on purpose. Meth in his system. Apologies for redundancy. ---
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-the-bullshit-level-of-this-story-of-a-man-dying-in-police-custody/630321/117 "2012-08-21T13:16:46Z")
I feel strangely compelled to ask for an apology from those 55 ‘option 4’ people for calling me ‘a fucking idiot’. How odd is that?🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Vicullum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/6de8d8/32.png) [@Vicullum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vicullum)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-the-bullshit-level-of-this-story-of-a-man-dying-in-police-custody/630321/118 "2012-08-21T15:33:01Z")
Completely plausible. In fact, this has actually happened [before](http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1991-03-21/news/9101140722_1_squad-car-police-station-jail-and-police) in 1991: > [@](#): > > A drifter from Illinois on Wednesday shot himself in the chin with a small handgun he somehow kept hidden while being arrested and handcuffed for rooting around in a garbage can, police said. [snip] Schmid was able to get the gun out from behind a heavy leather weightlifter`s belt and, with his hands cuffed behind his back, fire the weapon`s single bullet into his jaw, police spokesman Ott Cefkin said. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-the-bullshit-level-of-this-story-of-a-man-dying-in-police-custody/630321/119 "2012-08-21T15:44:33Z")
Neither offense seems worth killing yourself over. Methamphetamine no doubt clouds one’s judgement. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-the-bullshit-level-of-this-story-of-a-man-dying-in-police-custody/630321/120 "2012-08-21T16:15:50Z")
I’m glad I didn’t see this thread until now so I could smugly vote for the correct option. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-the-bullshit-level-of-this-story-of-a-man-dying-in-police-custody/630321.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rate-the-bullshit-level-of-this-story-of-a-man-dying-in-police-custody/630321.md?page=7)