# Rated E for Evolution and strong scientific content! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 19, 2005, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rated-e-for-evolution-and-strong-scientific-content/295333 "2005-03-19T18:33:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rated-e-for-evolution-and-strong-scientific-content/295333/1 "2005-03-19T18:33:11Z")
According to the [New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/19/national/19imax.html), “The fight over evolution has reached the big, big screen,” and that a number of IMAX theaters are refusing to show show films that contain information on evolution, the Big Bang, and geology for fear of protests from religious conservatives. (For people like **Waverly** and **Leander** who have an aversion to plural nouns, we’ll posit that only a few religious conservatives are religious and conservative–let’s call them Pat and Jerry. **I repeat, I am only talking about a subset of one religious sect.** ) The article in today’s _Times_ says that although the number of IMAX theaters that won’t show films like _Galapagos_ and _Cosmic Voyage_ is small, in a small market a small number can have a large influence: > [@](#): > > The number of theaters rejecting such films is small, people in the industry say - perhaps a dozen or fewer, most in the South. But because only a few dozen Imax theaters routinely show science documentaries, the decisions of a few can have a big impact on a film’s bottom line - or a producer’s decision to make a documentary in the first place. It’s a shame that theater managers are running scared of the Pats and Jerrys in this country: > [@](#): > > Carol Murray, director of marketing for the Fort Worth Museum of Science and History, said the museum decided not to offer the movie after showing it to a sample audience, a practice often followed by managers of Imax theaters. Ms. Murray said 137 people participated in the survey, and while some thought it was well done, “some people said it was blasphemous.” > > In their written comments, she explained, they made statements like “I really hate it when the theory of evolution is presented as fact,” or “I don’t agree with their presentation of human existence.” Adn I hate it when uneducated Pats and Jerrys think that their uninformed opinions should have any weight in the discussion of science and religion in this country. More to the point, science is not anti-God. It might be anti-literalist reading of Genesis, but one can believe in God and accept the evidence of human origins. Science does not address purpose, only process. Evolution happens, if one likes to think that YHWH, Zeus, Shiva, or the IPU guide that process, fine–biology, astronomy, and geology don’t address teleogical concerns. > [@](#): > > Dr. Lutz, the Rutgers oceanographer, recalled a showing of “Volcanoes” he and Mr. Low attended at the New England Aquarium. When the movie ended, a little girl stood in the audience to challenge Mr. Low on the film’s suggestion that Earth might have formed billions of years ago in the explosion of a star. “I thought God created the Earth,” she said. > > He replied, “Maybe that’s how God did it.” Don;t Pat and Jerry read the Bible? From Psalms 19:1 “The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands,”–even if the literal reading of Genesis is false, if one is a believer, why is one process less sacred than another? Why is being fromed from the dust of the earth in a cheap magic trick more magical than the gradual shaping of humanity from primate DNA? More to the point, how can humans think that they know the mind of an infinite being? Do Pat and Jerry know everything God does? If not, perhaps God (or gods) molds His creation in ways that He has chosen to reveal through the natural world. In any event, there is something pathetically cowardly in the spectacle of theater managers self-censoring the films they exhibit in case Pat and Jerry might launch a protest. I’m sure **Sol Grundy** , **Waverly** , and **Leander** will find a way to twist this post into a slam on all Christians, despite my deliberately crafted caveat, but I can’t stop haters from hatin’. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rated-e-for-evolution-and-strong-scientific-content/295333/2 "2005-03-19T18:41:55Z")
This gives me another opportunity to paraphrase and apply my favorite Walt Kelly (“Pogo”) quote, “Faced with adversity, and quivering with courage, the theater managers decided not to show the films…” ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rated-e-for-evolution-and-strong-scientific-content/295333/3 "2005-03-19T18:46:37Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > I’m sure **Sol Grundy** , **Waverly** , and **Leander** will find a way to twist this post into a slam on all Christians, despite my deliberately crafted caveat, but I can’t stop haters from hatin’. I’d be surprised if they did, because you said “religious conservatives,” and even then identified only a subset of them as the source of your anger. Your attempt at making yourself seem like a victim notwithstanding, I’d say that you’re finally getting (or at least heeding) their point. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rated-e-for-evolution-and-strong-scientific-content/295333/4 "2005-03-19T18:58:54Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > I’d be surprised if they did, because you said “religious conservatives,” and even then identified only a subset of them as the source of your anger. Your attempt at making yourself seem like a victim notwithstanding, I’d say that you’re finally getting (or at least heeding) their point. You miss the point–if I say that Christians believe in a doctrine that is the foundation of the pan-Christian faith, you say I’m “generalizing.” In the past, when I’ve been very specific that I addressed a subset of Christians, I still was accused of generalizing, as in the instance when a self-identified fundie tok me to task for addressing the fundie belief in Biblical literalism, saying she was a fundie who didn’t believe in a literal reading of the Bible, even though the definition of a fundie in **The Fundamentals** , edited by R.A. Torrey, from which the fundie movement originated, specifically mentions Biblical literalism. If you are not a Bible literalist, you are not a fundie, period. Too many people like to rewrite the definitions of words, and take me to task because I don’t accept their idionsyncratic reading. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rated-e-for-evolution-and-strong-scientific-content/295333/5 "2005-03-19T19:01:25Z")
FWIW, your OP was as rock solid and on-target as it comes, the disclaimer was clear, “Pat and Jerry” was a good turn of phrase (is that a chain of fundamentalist ice cream parlors?), and really, when you’re doing that well there’s no need to combine it with a preemptive call-out, which can cause a distraction – But that’s just IMO in the case of **this** OP; other than that, right on, **gobear**. Some people have a really small God, limited to playing around with mud on a tiny world over a measly few thousand years; that they can cow the IMAX people into hiding the uncomfortable truth is a testimony to how fearful and weak are the latter to the threat of losing money. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rated-e-for-evolution-and-strong-scientific-content/295333/6 "2005-03-19T19:01:47Z")
Let’s start a backlash, and buy or rent the same shows to encourage the producers. Sure, they won’t be on a humongous screen, but my TV is pretty good and a lot closer than the nearest IMAX. [Cosmic Voyage](http://imdb.com/title/tt0115952/) [Galápagos](http://imdb.com/title/tt0163639/) (There is also a Thor Heyerdahl, 1955, flick with the same title) [Volcanoes of the Deep Sea](http://imdb.com/title/tt0331068/) Netflix shows all these titles as available except the last one has an unknown release date; you can reserve it anyway. From the same NYT link: > [@](#): > > “Volcanoes,” released in 2003 and sponsored in part by the National Science Foundation and Rutgers University, has been turned down at about a dozen science centers, mostly in the South, said Dr. Richard Lutz, the Rutgers oceanographer who was chief scientist for the film. He said theater officials rejected the film because of its brief references to evolution, in particular to the possibility that life on Earth originated at the undersea vents. Science centers??? Churches I can see, but _science centers?_ Just what passes for science in the South nowadays? Are volcanoes a retribution from the Gods? Should we be tossing in a few goats and virgins to appease them? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rated-e-for-evolution-and-strong-scientific-content/295333/7 "2005-03-19T19:11:57Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Are volcanoes a retribution from the Gods? Should we be tossing in a few goats and virgins to appease them? Gimme that OLD-time religion gimme that OLD-time religion gimme that REAL OLD-time religion and that’s good enough for me… it was good enough for Pele and it’s good enough for me… ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rated-e-for-evolution-and-strong-scientific-content/295333/8 "2005-03-19T19:29:46Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > I’m sure **Sol Grundy** , **Waverly** , and **Leander** will find a way to twist this post into a slam on all Christians, despite my deliberately crafted caveat, but I can’t stop haters from hatin’. Not at all. I think you’ve done a very good job of describing exactly whom you want to slam. You’re clearly learning. _pat, pat_ Though frankly I don’t know why you’d want to keep calling attention to the thread where you got your ass handed to you, but that’s your choice. And the whole victim thing ain’t really working either, is it? As to the OP, I agree it’s pretty disgraceful. This is a perfect example of a few fuckwits (no doubt feeling empowered by _their_ president) bullying and pressuring folks into submission. Sure, it’s easy to blame the spineless theater owners – not to mention the science museums who pull the films (WTF!) and film producers who let asswits decide what they’re going to make – but in the end it’s the “Pats and Jerrys” (good term, btw) who are the cause of all of this bullshit. If they’re true Christians then I’m secretly in love with **gobear**. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rated-e-for-evolution-and-strong-scientific-content/295333/9 "2005-03-19T19:36:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Though frankly I don’t know why you’d want to keep calling attention to the thread where you got your ass handed to you, but that’s your choice. And the whole victim thing ain’t really working either, is it? Is that how you spell “lied about”? And do you still think that David Hume was a defender of supernaturalism? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rated-e-for-evolution-and-strong-scientific-content/295333/10 "2005-03-19T19:37:28Z")
> [@leander](#): > > If they’re true Christians then I’m secretly in love with gobear. “True Christians”? And you acc use me of logical fallacies? ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rated-e-for-evolution-and-strong-scientific-content/295333/11 "2005-03-19T19:39:28Z")
Ouch, must have touched a nerve there. Settled down, old boy, no need to hijack this thread with our petty squabbles. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rated-e-for-evolution-and-strong-scientific-content/295333/12 "2005-03-19T19:40:24Z")
Your OP is great, but seems a bit inconsistent with your previous attempts to claim that all those who did _not_ stick to Biblical literalism were not true Sco…errr, Christians. As for the content: at first it appeared you were talking about regular old entertainment-based IMAX’s. Then further on, it was revealed that one of the rejecting theatres was the Fort Worth Museum of Science and History! A science museum _not_ sharing information on evolution? What gives? No, seriously! I’ll be in Fort Worth on vacation this fall, and while I’m there I have it in my agenda to **NOT** go to the Fort Worth Museum of Science and History, and I will tell my friends who are also there about it so they can make up their own mind. Ditto for Charleston. If they can’t stick up for the facts, who will? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rated-e-for-evolution-and-strong-scientific-content/295333/13 "2005-03-19T19:44:42Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Your OP is great, but seems a bit inconsistent with your previous attempts to claim that all those who did _not_ stick to Biblical literalism were not true Sco…errr, Christians. If you think I said that, you didn’t understand my posts. I maintain that doctrine must be Scripture-based, but obviously not all Christians are literalists. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rated-e-for-evolution-and-strong-scientific-content/295333/14 "2005-03-19T19:46:39Z")
> [@](#): > > I’ll be in Fort Worth on vacation this fall, and while I’m there I have it in my agenda to NOT go to the Fort Worth Museum of Science and History, and I will tell my friends who are also there about it so they can make up their own mind. Ditto for Charleston. Actually, you might consider stepping in the door, seeing whether they have “Give us your feedback” cards, and dropping them a note that you had considered visiting, but that you changed your mind on discovering that they were trying to ignore the science regarding evolution. No one is going to change their program if they think they only lose money if they do not kow-tow to the extreme Right. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rated-e-for-evolution-and-strong-scientific-content/295333/15 "2005-03-19T19:48:23Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I’ll be in Fort Worth on vacation this fall, and while I’m there I have it in my agenda to **NOT** go to the Fort Worth Museum of Science and History, and I will tell my friends who are also there about it so they can make up their own mind. Ditto for Charleston. Or better yet, drop by and tell them how disappointed you are with their decision. Tell them about the big school groups who were hoping to come down and catch the film, and who now will not be visiting their museum at all. And be sure to let the newspapers know what’s going on, too. None of this will probably make a dent, but it sure won’t hurt trying. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rated-e-for-evolution-and-strong-scientific-content/295333/16 "2005-03-19T19:50:27Z")
The trouble with a literalist view is that it precludes an empirical understanding of the processes that shape our world. Inventions and discoveries are made by experimentations and research, not by reading the Bible and waiting for a divine revelation. It s sad that the IMAX theatre owners are kowtowing to the Pats and Jerrys and not standing up for a scientific view of the world and its workings. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rated-e-for-evolution-and-strong-scientific-content/295333/17 "2005-03-19T20:08:25Z")
I live near enough to forth worth that I might just drive down to drop off a comment card. Or perhaps I’ll just give them a call. ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rated-e-for-evolution-and-strong-scientific-content/295333/18 "2005-03-19T20:15:16Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > I live near enough to forth worth that I might just drive down to drop off a comment card. Or perhaps I’ll just give them a call. I would also encourage folks to drop a dollar in the donation box. Sound crazy? Well, consider why these institutions might be in their current predicament. Given the funding situation for the sciences these days, and the well-oiled organization of the fundies, some people are having to make some very hard decisions that they really honestly regret just to keep the doors open at all. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rated-e-for-evolution-and-strong-scientific-content/295333/19 "2005-03-19T20:17:14Z")
I’m a grad student, I have to save money just so I can be broke 😉 If it comes down to having a slice of pizza for lunch, or putting a dollar into their coffers, I’m choosing the cheesy goodness 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rated-e-for-evolution-and-strong-scientific-content/295333/20 "2005-03-19T20:34:49Z")
I’m guessing [_We Are Born Of Stars_](http://www.imax.com/films/now_playing/we_stars.html) is right out, then? In the ironic ad content department, one of the banner ads that loads with the page is for a correspondence school, proclaiming “As your knowledge grows, your influence multiplies.” I guess the same might be said of ignorance. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rated-e-for-evolution-and-strong-scientific-content/295333.md?page=2)