# Ration answers to this proposition... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 1, 2012, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ration-answers-to-this-proposition/620572 "2012-05-01T22:30:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ration-answers-to-this-proposition/620572/41 "2012-05-02T14:41:40Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Yeah, you’d think a degrading orbit would be easy to set up. Am I wrong? Yes. Degrading orbits only happen when there’s a thick enough atmosphere to slow down whatever’s orbiting. There’s an awful lot of pretty good vacuum between us and the Sun. Orbits might eventually degrade, but I’d estimate that we’re talking well into the hundreds of millions of years for anything to degrade right into the sun. After all, the Earth’s orbit around the sun is not degrading much, and a good thing too! It might be easier just to shoot them off into orbit and say that the sun will catch up to them when it reached red-giant stage. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ration-answers-to-this-proposition/620572/42 "2012-05-02T14:44:43Z")
> [@Sheriru](#): > > What is your humble opinions on this… > > What if every human being who committed an inhuman act, and given second chances failed to be taken, was put into a rocket and shot into the sun? > > My opinion is that first it would aid in controlling population. Do you believe that the majority of humans are “inhumane” and deserving of the death penalty? If not, it seems to me that the population levels would still rise. (Unless you also outlaw unapproved/unlicensed procreation.) > [@](#): > > Two is that it would leave a more thoughtful, intelligent minority to spawn into a more informed and respectful society. What? I don’t see how you could make that conclusion. If all of the convicts that were executed were right handed, do you believe that the human race would suddenly develope more left handed, or ambidexterous traits? > [@](#): > > Three is that we’ll conserve resources that the people used–and a smarter human mind will find solutions to our depleting resources on this earth. Note: Three seems to be a variant of Two. More people were killed/are being killed by other humans (in raw numbers) in the last century than at any other period in recorded history. Does the average IQ of humans really seem to be getting higher, over all, because of this? (I vote “no, we’re just getting more efficient at killing each other.”) Kill all the undesirables, eh? People who tinker with that idea never seem to consider themselves as part of that unlucky subset. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ration-answers-to-this-proposition/620572/43 "2012-05-02T14:53:01Z")
> [@Sheriru](#): > > I would just like scientific answers. Why not just relocate them to New Jersey? Much closer, yet similarly inhospitable. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ration-answers-to-this-proposition/620572/44 "2012-05-02T15:09:47Z")
> [@chrisk](#): > > Yes. Degrading orbits only happen when there’s a thick enough atmosphere to slow down whatever’s orbiting. > > There’s an awful lot of pretty good vacuum between us and the Sun. Orbits might eventually degrade, but I’d estimate that we’re talking well into the hundreds of millions of years for anything to degrade right into the sun. After all, the Earth’s orbit around the sun is not degrading much, and a good thing too! > > It might be easier just to shoot them off into orbit and say that the sun will catch up to them when it reached red-giant stage. So setting up a satellite to orbit the Sun would be relatively easy compared to orbiting the Earth? ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ration-answers-to-this-proposition/620572/45 "2012-05-03T03:11:50Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > So setting up a satellite to orbit the Sun would be relatively easy compared to orbiting the Earth? Depends on your criteria for ‘easy.’ You need an awful lot of launch energy for your satellite to have it escape the Earth’s local gravity well, and there’s a bit of asteroidal junk out there that just might intersect your satellite’s path, (as opposed to orbiting the Earth, where you just need to worry about all the other man-made junk.) But I don’t think you’d need to worry about its orbit degrading, unless you’re deliberately putting it closer to the Sun than Mercury. Then again, I’m not sure how much of a problem degrading orbits is for Earth satellites, once you get above the low orbits where the Shuttles and the ISS hang out. Is degrading orbits a problem for the geostationary satellites? (Possibly, because if their orbit degrades even a little, they’re not geostationary anymore.) ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ration-answers-to-this-proposition/620572/46 "2012-05-03T03:25:10Z")
> [@chrisk](#): > > …I’d estimate that we’re talking well into the hundreds of millions of years for anything to degrade right into the sun. So… we have to put the rocket’s villainous cargo into cryogenic suspension so that they survive the millions of years required for the orbit to degrade… and build a rocket that will last millions of years and not melt until it actually reaches the sun? Well… I can’t say I care much for the OP’s proposition but those technologies could be worthwhile. May I propose that we put off the “shooting them into the sun” phase until we have the foundation technologies in place? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ration-answers-to-this-proposition/620572/47 "2012-05-03T04:06:20Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > So setting up a satellite to orbit the Sun would be relatively easy compared to orbiting the Earth? Well, sure, you just leave it lying on the ground. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ration-answers-to-this-proposition/620572/48 "2012-05-03T10:23:46Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I would say we’ll soon run out of rockets Here’s an idea: we _build more rockets_! Nasty people shipped to a fiery solar death _and_ lower unemployment in one fell swoop. The OP’s a genius, I tells ya! ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ration-answers-to-this-proposition/620572/49 "2012-05-03T16:13:06Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Work with me here…What if, instead of rocketing them into the sun, we built specialized facilities where such people might be confined, under guard, until such time as our legal system determines they may be released? Think of it as a form of penitance. Wouldn’t it be better to eventually kill them after some time in those facilities? Or would that be controversial? I love it when we see new ideas like this. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ration-answers-to-this-proposition/620572/50 "2012-05-03T18:50:26Z")
> [@Sheriru](#): > > No, committing crimes against anyone or anything shows your insanity and heartlessness. Heh. Have you heard about PETA? Using animals for food, and murdering them for their hides is Eeee-ville and cruel. All you need is for someone who agrees with that philosophy to get appointed to be the “Rocket to the Sun Czar”. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sheriru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Sheriru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sheriru)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ration-answers-to-this-proposition/620572/51 "2012-05-04T21:24:25Z")
Everyone, I know we all have different opinions in this case. And let me please tell you that I’m not as educated as all of you. Someday I will, yes, but I’ve got many years ahead of me. I didnt exactly mean to say “evil people die, smart people live”. If the cruel people are removed, wouldn’t this world be better? Shooting to the sun is out of the question… And I know for a fact I’m not heartless or cruel. I’m actually a person whose life is being ruined by disrespectful people… it’s hard to want to live with them around. All I want is to live without being thrashed by today’s gruesome society of drug-addicts, rapists, and murderers… please try not to get angry, also ---
**Author:** ![Sheriru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Sheriru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sheriru)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ration-answers-to-this-proposition/620572/52 "2012-05-04T21:51:06Z")
Everyone, I know we all have different opinions in this case. And let me please tell you that I’m not as educated as all of you. Someday I will, yes, but I’ve got many years ahead of me. I didnt exactly mean to say “evil people die, smart people live”. If the cruel people are removed, wouldn’t this world be better? Shooting to the sun is out of the question… And I know for a fact I’m not heartless or cruel. I’m actually a person whose life is being ruined by disrespectful people… it’s hard to want to live with them around. All I want is to live without being thrashed by today’s gruesome society of drug-addicts, rapists, and murderers… please try not to get angry, also ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ration-answers-to-this-proposition/620572/53 "2012-05-05T00:56:37Z")
> [@Sheriru](#): > > . . . I didnt exactly mean to say “evil people die, smart people live”. If the cruel people are removed, wouldn’t this world be better? Shooting to the sun is out of the question… Perhaps the single best thing humanity has ever devised is self-government. Over a period of thousands of years, we have pieced together a pretty good justice system. In early days, the justice system worked more or less the way you describe. Murderers were put to death. Unfortunately, so were a lot of people who committed minor crimes, such as burglary or forgery. And a lot of innocent people were executed also. The legal system, world-wide, in all its variations, has been improved since the days of Hammurabi and Pharaoh. We’ve learned the importance of human rights, of evidentiary procedure, or judicial impartiality, and of legal advocacy. It sounds as if you, in a cry of angst, would set all of this aside, and return to a primitive retributive system. This might provide some momentary satisfaction, but it is most widely believed that it would leave the world worse off, morally, rather than better off. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ration-answers-to-this-proposition/620572/54 "2012-05-05T15:12:11Z")
We’ve seen this type of retribution in history. The French Revolution is a prime example. Let’s say that the leader who decides who is cruel/not cruel is 100% moral and just and never makes a mistake. So the killings go on for years until one person decides that he doesn’t like the policy of the Supreme Leader. He automatically has many followers: the relatives of the people that have been executed, so then this person comes into power and redefines cruel/not cruel. Not surprisingly, the people who were first in the not cruel group are now in the cruel group and executed. The end result is just a mass indiscriminate killing with no regard to who is really cruel and not cruel. Remember that Robespierre was one of the first to go to the guillotine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ration-answers-to-this-proposition/620572.md?page=2)