# Rational healthcare debate - politics free zone **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 11, 2009, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rational-healthcare-debate-politics-free-zone/509690 "2009-09-11T15:14:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 3\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2009, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rational-healthcare-debate-politics-free-zone/509690/81 "2009-09-15T18:09:15Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > We are talking about whether UHC can save us money. No, I am afraid this isn’t true. **The Controvert** asked for a guarantee that Obamacare would not cost him money. You responded with a post which, by your own admission, used a system that is not going to be implemented. > [@](#): > > Try to keep up. I am keeping up. You made a misleading statement. Try not to do that. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2009, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rational-healthcare-debate-politics-free-zone/509690/82 "2009-09-15T18:21:04Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It seems nearly everyone in this thread istaking it as a given that the government has the obligation to provide health care if a person cannot pay for it. > > Why? > > We wouldn’t say that the government must provide a college education. We wouldn’t say that the government must help you find a spouse. > > On what basis do we decide that the government is responsible for health care at any level? Not the government at all. They are the mechanism. The question is in America do we care about the poor, the sick or the disadvantaged. Many other countries feel it is wrong for people who get sick to go bankrupt or go without medical help. Some of you apparently will never get sick or need help. The rest of us know what a accident or catastrophic illness can do to our lives. The people have to care. This board shows a lot of you could care less about the poor .The poor include a lot of children. I suppose they should just go away. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rational-healthcare-debate-politics-free-zone/509690/83 "2009-09-15T18:34:53Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, I am afraid this isn’t true. **The Controvert** asked for a guarantee that Obamacare would not cost him money. You responded with a post which, by your own admission, used a system that is not going to be implemented. Then it is a bogus request and you should know that. I have NO idea what Obamacare will look like when (if) it is passed. Not even Obama knows that. I hope it comes as no surprise to you that Congress writes these things, not Obama. If you have a crystal ball that knows what Congress will settle on (if it ever settles on anything health care) let me know and we can discuss it. Bush signed Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act into law. That was supposed to help. Turned out to be a massive handout to pharma (Medicare Part D). Of course, it lacked the eminently common sense ability for the government to negotiate prices. The Veteran’s Administration can negotiate and guess what? They pay a lot less as a result. So yeah, till I see a final bill neither you nor I can say what it will or won’t do. What I can say is that it is absolutely achievable to have a health care plan that would reduce costs and do so dramatically. The evidence it can be done is all over the world. Hell, the Veteran’s Administration shows that too right here in the good old US of A. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rational-healthcare-debate-politics-free-zone/509690.md?page=4)