# "Rats the size of cats" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 27, 2011, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rats-the-size-of-cats/607528 "2011-12-27T16:23:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rats-the-size-of-cats/607528/1 "2011-12-27T16:23:56Z")
It’s a phrase I’ve come across a number of times (“The tenament has rat the size of cats living in the basement!”), but is it possible? Is there a reliably documented instance of a _Rattus rattus_ or _Rattus norvegicus_ that really is the size of a cat? (And so help me, anyone who says “I don’t believe they exist” will be smacked with a poodle). ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rats-the-size-of-cats/607528/2 "2011-12-27T16:29:07Z")
With the tail extended[this one would be pretty large.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Th3RqUDKS4) [This one is also pretty sizeable.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcK3AGX4Aus&feature=related) ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rats-the-size-of-cats/607528/3 "2011-12-27T16:38:08Z")
I suppose they are the size of a small cat, or a big squirrel; the one in the video is. Last year in NYC, I recall seeing about a dozen running around Battery Park near the park entrance at night, chewing on discarded fast food in the wire garbage bins. Plus I saw one in the subway rails like the second video. They are almost as big as squirrels. If you think rats don’t get bigger than large mice - you are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Indian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@Indian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indian)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rats-the-size-of-cats/607528/4 "2011-12-27T16:39:04Z")
They exist and I have seen them in my farm( rural india). They fed on tapioca mostly. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rats-the-size-of-cats/607528/5 "2011-12-27T16:44:25Z")
It;s a common phrase in NYC. It refers to the smaller variety of rats which are no bigger than a house cat, as in: “Those rats are cute! They’re only as big as a cat”. Those are probably just juveniles though. The average NYC rat is so large that they’ve rid the sewers of the albino alligators. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rats-the-size-of-cats/607528/6 "2011-12-27T16:57:28Z")
Neither Rattus rattus nor Rattus norvegicus, but rats anyway (sort of) [sniffing out land mines](http://images.google.com/search?q=giant+rats+mines&tbm=isch&hl=en&imgsz=&imgar=&imgtype=&imgsrc=&imgc=&imgcc=&cr=&safe=images&biw=1024&bih=619&sei=Xvj5TtyQDoHP4QSwksyNCA). ---
**Author:** ![brittekland](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aeb1de/32.png) [@brittekland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brittekland)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rats-the-size-of-cats/607528/7 "2011-12-27T17:03:32Z")
High fructose corn syrup ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rats-the-size-of-cats/607528/8 "2011-12-27T18:07:14Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > Is there a reliably documented instance of a _Rattus rattus_ or _Rattus norvegicus_ that really is the size of a cat? Nope. The smallest cat on record was ~3 lbs and that is a very, very small cat. The very largest Norway rats will top the scale at not much above 2 lbs and that is a very, very large rat. So cats and rats do not overlap in size even at their respective extremes and your average cat is going to be much larger than your average rat. Now a [capybara](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capybara) on the other hand… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rats-the-size-of-cats/607528/9 "2011-12-27T18:12:35Z")
I’m sure we could breed rats as big as cats and cats as small as rats if we put our minds to it. That is, based on how we have bred other domestic animals. ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rats-the-size-of-cats/607528/10 "2011-12-27T18:22:13Z")
According to the prophecy, there will be, after the Glitter Apocalypse: > [@](#): > > Originally posted by **David Bowie:** > > …Fleas the size of rats sucked on rats the size of cats and ten thousand peopleoids split into small tribes coveting the last of the sterile skyscrapers, like packs of dogs assaulting the glass fronts of Love Me Avenue… ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rats-the-size-of-cats/607528/11 "2011-12-27T18:44:35Z")
> [@indian](#): > > They exist and I have seen them in my farm( rural india). They fed on tapioca mostly. It’s possible that you had rodents of this size, but as Tamerlane says if they were as big as cats they were not Rattus norvegicus or Rattus rattus. However, I am not aware of any species in India that would qualify. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rats-the-size-of-cats/607528/12 "2011-12-27T18:54:11Z")
I’ve seen a lot of regular size rats over the years, but I did see one in 1981 or 1982 that was at least the size of a cat. There were pics going around this summer of a maintenance worker in Brooklyn that impaled a gigantic rat. The one I saw was that big. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rats-the-size-of-cats/607528/13 "2011-12-27T19:04:57Z")
> [@Floater](#): > > Neither Rattus rattus nor Rattus norvegicus, but rats anyway (sort of) [sniffing out land mines](http://images.google.com/search?q=giant+rats+mines&tbm=isch&hl=en&imgsz=&imgar=&imgtype=&imgsrc=&imgc=&imgcc=&cr=&safe=images&biw=1024&bih=619&sei=Xvj5TtyQDoHP4QSwksyNCA). I’ve read about those! Aren’t they awesome? ---
**Author:** ![teela\_brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rats-the-size-of-cats/607528/14 "2011-12-27T19:30:34Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > I’ve read about those! Aren’t they awesome? What do they do? Just point out the location of the land mine, or obligingly explode the mines and themselves in the process? ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rats-the-size-of-cats/607528/15 "2011-12-27T19:38:09Z")
> [@teela\_brown](#): > > What do they do? Just point out the location of the land mine, or obligingly explode the mines and themselves in the process? They sniff them out and indicate them. They have very acute senses of smell and are trainable. Unlike dogs, they also have the advantage that even “giant” rats are too small to trip the mine, and they don’t bond to particular handlers - they’ll work with anyone who has food. ---
**Author:** ![ballardfam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8797f3/32.png) [@ballardfam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ballardfam)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rats-the-size-of-cats/607528/16 "2011-12-27T19:47:14Z")
We live near a wooded area & people are always mistaking possums for rats. Like, “I saw an enormous rat on the way here”. So maybe there’s some of that in that saying. ---
**Author:** ![JBDivmstr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b4bc9f/32.png) [@JBDivmstr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBDivmstr)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rats-the-size-of-cats/607528/17 "2011-12-27T19:50:27Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Nope. The smallest cat on record was ~3 lbs and that is a very, very small cat. The very largest Norway rats will top the scale at not much above 2 lbs and that is a very, very large rat. > > So cats and rats do not overlap in size even at their respective extremes and your average cat is going to be much larger than your average rat. Now a [capybara](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capybara) on the other hand… I’m not saying you’re wrong and I’m definitely not trying to ‘one up’ NYC, (This _ **is** _ Texas, mind you. ;)) but I’ve personally had a rat come out from underneath my truck and run across my foot in downtown Houston. :eek: IIRC, it wasn’t **as** big as an average sized house cat, but it sure as Hell **wasn’t** \*\*\*a whole lot smaller \*\*\*than one, either. ---
**Author:** ![JBDivmstr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b4bc9f/32.png) [@JBDivmstr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBDivmstr)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rats-the-size-of-cats/607528/18 "2011-12-27T20:02:46Z")
> [@ballardfam](#): > > We live near a wooded area & people are always mistaking possums for rats. Like, “I saw an enormous rat on the way here”. So maybe there’s some of that in that saying. I live just 4 miles north of downtown (inside the Loop, for those that know) and in the last couple of years alone, IIRC my Dad and I have caught at least 5 possums and two racoons, and all of them were fully grown. I’m talking ‘inner city’ here, not the ‘burbs’. :eek: I will concede that a possum does _slightly_ resemble a rat, but not enough to mistake one for the other, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rats-the-size-of-cats/607528/19 "2011-12-27T20:07:33Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Nope. The smallest cat on record was ~3 lbs and that is a very, very small cat. The very largest Norway rats will top the scale at not much above 2 lbs and that is a very, very large rat. > > … We had a grossly fat pet rat who weighed in at a little over 3#. But I want to point out, he could hardly walk, he was so fat (but he was very happy, anyway). ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rats-the-size-of-cats/607528/20 "2011-12-27T20:30:31Z")
> [@LurkerInNJ](#): > > I’ve seen a lot of regular size rats over the years, but I did see one in 1981 or 1982 that was at least the size of a cat. > [@JBDivmstr](#): > > I’m not saying you’re wrong and I’m definitely not trying to ‘one up’ NYC, (This _ **is** _ Texas, mind you. ;)) but I’ve personally had a rat come out from underneath my truck and run across my foot in downtown Houston. :eek: > IIRC, it wasn’t **as** big as an average sized house cat, but it sure as Hell **wasn’t** \*\*\*a whole lot smaller \*\*\*than one, either. Impressions of size are notoriously unreliable. Without an actual specimen in hand and accurate measurements, anecdotal observations like this don’t provide any real support for the existence of rats the size of cats. > [@](#): > > There were pics going around this summer of a maintenance worker in Brooklyn that impaled a gigantic rat. The one I saw was that big. [That story](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/25/giant-rat-at-brooklyns-ma_n_937316.html) actually involved an [African Giant Pouched Rat](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambian_Pouched_Rat) (or Gambian Pouched Rat). Although these are very large, they are only the size of a very small cat. Note that in the photo the rat on the pitchfork is being held much closer to the camera than the person holding it, making it look much larger than it actually is. As has been said, there are some big rodents around, but they are different from the common domestic rats. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rats-the-size-of-cats/607528.md?page=2)