The crows seemed to be calling his name, thought Caw.
- Jack Handey
You mean when they talk to you they don’t tell you to go shopping?
Hitchcock’s “The Birds” was shot in Bodega Bay CA, in Sonoma County. There are lots of seagulls and sea birds of other kinds out there, but I don’t recall having ever seen crows or ravens. I reckon they don’t like the ocean environment.
But for whatever reason, they do like the environment of northern Charles County, MD. Maybe it has to do with the environment having been disturbed by all kinds of development or something. They flock in murderously large parliments (well, whatever)… they hang out in immense groups in the trees so that in the late afternoon hours especially their numbers are awesome. I can’t imagine what all the attraction is for them.
Several posters indicated that you can’t tell the difference between a crow and a raven just by the size unless you have a comparison. I beg to disagree.
The first time I saw a raven, in Washington, DC, I knew instantly it was a raven. It was much bigger than a crow. Didn’t need a crow around to compare. It’s size was something to crow about.
If the OP’s bird is twice the size of a pigeon (rock dove) then it’s probably a raven. A crow is about 3 inches bigger.
I live in Arlington VA. All the raven-sized black birdies I see around here go “caw”. Now I’m confused.
Wilmington, North Carolina is on the Atlantic coast, and has both plenty of seagulls plus crows. And somethings they even get together. It’s common for groups of seagulls to come inland a ways, and treat empty parking lots as a sort of artificial beach, where they can land and walk around a little. And it’s also common for a couple of crows to be walking around amidst the seagulls. It doesn’t seem to bother either species, but I always wondered if these crows thought that they were quietly fading into the crowd, and no one would notice they were there.
Take it from an expert, the average length of a crow is 21"…head to/and including, tail. Ravens are bigger of course, yes, the call is different. I think ravens also will hop before take-off, where crows will not.
Are you sure they are crows? Are they possibly boat-tailed grackles? They look very similar. Here, just down the coast from you, in Charleston, grackles (both boat-tailed and common) are often seen feeding with gulls, esp. on the beaches where people feed them.
Olentzero, if they say “caw,” they are crows. Ravens definitely have a different sound, noted in the other posts. It’s easy to get confused with all these blackbirds.
I thought so. They are pretty damn big around here, and they don’t have the beard like the ravens are supposed to.
FWIW, in Juneau AK the ravens were the dominant corvid, and the crows around there were a heck of a lot smaller - I’d almost say robin-sized. This was some 10 years ago, however, so I’m not supporting my memory on this one.
In any case corvids are damn cool.
Two cent’s worth of opinion and a buck’s worth of elucidation:
I’m in Arlington/Alexandria, Virginia as well, and we do have some BIG honkin’ crows around here. Double pigeon size at least. But only rarely do I see a raven (or hear one, more likely), though I have seen both almost side-by-side. Their heads/beaks look kinda different when you can see them in direct contrast like that.
And the elucidation part:
Parliament of Owls
Murder of Crows
Unkindness of Ravens
As an Audubon member, learned scholar of ornithology, and devout bookworm here’s my verdict on the raven v. crow case:
Ravens’re a whole lot bigger’n dem crows n gots pointy tip thingies on th’end o’ dem feathers n stuff. Crows’re smaller and wake me up in the morning.
Ever wonder 'bout the etymology of the term “eating crow?” I heard that it comes from the American Revolution, where crows could be found feasting on the bodies of battle dead. Apparently, POW’s were then fed crow to be forced into consuming their embibed comrades. Any truth to this?
According to the National Geograhic Field Guide, the only crows found in Alaska are the northwestern crows, and they are about two inches smaller than the American crow. But at 16 inches they’re still twice the size of robins.
Starlings, however, are exactly the same size as robins (about 9 inches). They are found close to Alaska, near the Alaska-Can line, and I guess can stray into Alaska. It’s a blackbird as well. The common grackle, another blackbird, is a little larger, but not found in Alaska.
Not all black birds are either crows or ravens. I bet the bird you saw in Alaska was a starling. Is that possible? As a matter of fact, now, Juneau is in the island chain extending along N. Canada, isn’t it? Starlings breed in that island chain, as they do on the mainland.
According to my fiancé’s far more accurate text than the one that had yellow bills on crows (this book was put out by Reader’s Digest, and is called…simply…North American Wildlife):
Rock Dove (pigeon)
Length: 11-14in.
Common Crow
Length: 16-20in
(excerpt)“The common and white-necked raven *(corvus caurinus *and cryptoleucus, larger birds with wedge-shaped tails, are sometimes mistaken for crows.”
Interesting. So, a very large pigeon could be three inches smaller than a very small crow. Then again, and very large crow could also be nearly double the size of a very small pigeon. Does that make us both right?
FWIW, all of the crows I have seen are monsters compared to pigeons. But, the mallards that hang out by the stream are the biggest fowl around here. 
Meanwhile, this showed me that the cute little yellow-eyed blackbirds around here (not the slightest bit crow-like) are Brewer’s Blackbirds. Well, neat.
Well, I’m an ornithologist that specializes in the corvids: crows, ravens, magpies, and jays. I did undergraduate work in SoCal on crows. I did my doctorate on Black-billed Magpies (a damn gorgeous bird and rather a saucy fellow) and did post-doc work on the roosting behavior of American Crows. I’ve done operant behavior stuff (“Hey you magpie, can you tell the difference between these wing patterns?”), performed vasectomies, did genetic stuff, and ran after radio-tagged crows during all hours of the night. And it’s been a blast. One really shouldn’t have this much fun in a job and I suspect I’ll pay dearly for it in my next lifetime. Right now I bleed birds to sample for West Nile virus. I band them and let them go after taking just a little teeny bit of blood. I emphasize crows because they are hit particularly hard by this emerging disease. Here I am at work. (Warning to the squeamish, there is a picture of me drawing blood from the jugular of a crow.)
Ruffian, since you’re so close to the San Gabriel Mountains, it wouldn’t surprise me if you’re seeing ravens.
To clarify a couple of points: American Crows vary quite a bit in size. We have radio-tagged crows that weighed between 275 grams and 550 grams. Males are generally bigger than females. Fish Crows (Corvus ossifragus) are somewhat smaller, but there is so much overlap between the species that size is NOT reliable. Voice is okay when you hear the double call of the Fish Crow. The first note is higher than the second note. American Crows never give the Fish Crow call. Unfortunately, Fish Crows also give other calls, and they sound so much like juvenile American Crows that voice is not a reliable cue during the summer and fall when juveniles make their noisy selves known. And Fish and American Crows do co-mingle. I have a difficult time telling the two apart even when in the hand. In addition to all this, there are a number of “subspecies” (not really recognized as yet) where American Crows in some parts of the country are larger than in other parts.
Common Ravens are the bruisers of the corvid world, weighing in at around 1200 grams (about the same size as female Red-tailed Hawks: male hawks are slightly smaller). Again, plenty of variability, but clearly they are much larger than crows. Despite this (and maybe it’s just me and my confused brain) but when I see a bird flying in the air, it is difficult for me to assess the size of the bird without a reference. So, I look for other cues, like voice, flight pattern, and physical appearance (the tail wedge) in addition to where I am (mountains, east coast, hardwood forest, etc).
Olentzero, I was looking for crows roosts around Fairfax in the early 80’s and there are a ton of crows out your way. And they did seem big to me too. My sister kiffa and I searched and searched, and couldn’t find any so we decided to go to the mall instead. Wouldn’t you know it, but that’s where they were. Good food sources, I suppose. I also suspect you saw the Northwestern Crow (a smaller, more “refined” crow) in Juneau.
Another cool crow bit: the kids have blue eyes.
/horse hijack
Ruffian, that would be so cool to know when Marseilles Ballet is running. This is my brother’s first horse and he lives in Zambia so I’d love to have my nephew video-tape her. I’m so nervous about her - I just hope she has safe trips!
/crosses the finish line
Ha, ya snuck in there while I was typing, Ruffian. I think your assumptions are right - lots of size variation. And pigeons are a pretty meaty bird with lots of packed feathers so even while being smaller, they can appear to be husky and approaching a small crow size.
brachyrhynchos, could I segue to another corvid-type topic, as long as there’s an expert here?
Jays - we have Steller’s jays around here, which a lot of people in this area refer to as “blue jays”. Being originally from PA, I know the difference between the Steller’s, and what I learned to call a “blue jay” back east. I seem to remember hearing someplace that one or both of them are expanding their ranges, and where they overlap, hybrids are turning up. Do you happen to know if this is true?
…Just so you know, I do know you’re a [wo]man. I used “man” as slang in that sentence, not description…as one who is also frequently mistaken for male, I just thought you’d like to know.
Neeeeeeat! You study birds n stuff! I always had great interest in being a biologist, but feared I would end up couped up in an office trying to affix a 1/4" label to some frog innards or something equally isolated and tedious. But your stuff sounds cool. Mind if I live a bit vicariously? (One reason I chose to be a teacher: I love learning about everything, and just couldn’t choose one area of study to focus on. So, I chose the profession that let me play with multiple areas of study!)
Oh…and for Marseilles Ballet, just go to http://www.drf2000.com (Daily Racing Form)…go to Handicapping Central, then StableMail. There, set up your stable (of one), and you’ll receive an email whenever he/she works out, and whenever they’re entered in a race (typically a few days prior to its running).
My final verdict: Them’s crows. They say “caw” (over and over again), they’re big, but not red-tail hawk size, they have no ruff, and their tails ain’t wedged an’ stuff.
So there.
Just a final note–the whole “crow/pigeon” and “raven/hawk” comparison is just a birdwatcher’s “rough guess” rule of thumb thing. When you’re out with the binocs and the field guide, you don’t usually have a chance to grab that big black bird and lay it out and measure it, so you get in the habit of shooting from the hip (so to speak) and saying, “It was about the size of a hawk” or “It was about the size of a pigeon”. It’s a qualitative thing, rather than a scientifically quantitative thing.
Crows, although technically they may be larger than pigeons, in flight take up about the same amount of “visual flapping space” to a birdwatcher’s eyes as pigeons do. I think it’s the pigeons’ fault–somehow they always seem to fly bigger than they really are, as though they have some kind of God-given mandate to be up there and the sky belongs to them.
And “hawk” to birdwatchers always means something the size of a red-tailed hawk, in other words, pretty big.
I’ve been a birder (note that real “birdwatchers” call themselves “birders”) for many years and never heard that a “hawk” means a red tailed hawk or a red shoulder hawk (both the same size). Birders like to be more specific.
And “visually flapping size” - you gotta be kidding. Birders, by habit, get to be a lot more precise than that. You have to be to properly identify a bird.
I have one final comment. When I was able to identify the raven without a comparison, the raven was on the ground, not flying. Sure, if it was flying I would’ve need a crow to compare it with. Moreover, it was in a flock of ravens.
Reminded me of a strange experience I had a few years ago.
My father-in-law lives on several acres a few miles outside of Denver, Colo. I’d hiked up the back yard to watch the lights come on down in the valley, but it was late December and cold and I didn’t know the area that well; so I decided to head back to the house (about a 20 min. walk with the terrain) just a bit before sundown.
At the top of the hill on the back of the property is an enormous pine tree. It marks the spot to turn south when heading back to the house. It was empty (or mostly so) when I went up and still empty when I passed it. By the time I’d gotten to the bottom of the hill, though, there was a hellacious racket. I looked back up the hill, and the tree was BLACK.
That struck me as strange, so I climbed about sixty yards back up and saw more crows sitting in the branches than I cared to count, with more flying in from around the back of the mountain.
Despite the fact that seeing that many of anything crowded together was a bit unnevering, I’ve always thought crows and ravens were really cool; so I stood back a respectable distance (there were still about 30 yards between me and the tree) and watched them for a while.
Seeing that was easily the best part of my visit.