# Raw milk **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** soda-softdrinks\ **Created:** [August 16, 2012, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raw-milk/631662 "2012-08-16T13:11:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raw-milk/631662/1 "2012-08-16T13:11:41Z")
I have a question about organic, raw milk. I bought a mason jar of raw, whole milk on 7-29-12. It was fresh from the cow named Trixie at 7:45 that morning. It was not homogenized or pasteurized, and was put into a sterile mason jar. I know it was collected by hand and not by machine, but I do not have any other information about how it was handled (I think I will ask next time I see the folks, and also about any testing done on the milk for bacteria, etc.). I do know the owner has about a dozen cows, they are pastured and grass fed, and also that the dairy is a certified and licensed raw milk dairy. Today is 8-16 and that milk has not gone bad. I did not remove the cream from the top and it is kept covered in it’s original mason jar in the fridge. I’m really surprised that the milk has stayed fresh for over two weeks and I’m wondering why it stayed fresh so long, or conversely, why the other milk sours so fast. I also got some cream and made butter with it. It was brilliant yellow, and I am to understand the color is from the compounds in grass diet of the cows. ---
**Author:** ![Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Long_Time_First_Time)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raw-milk/631662/2 "2012-08-16T13:48:50Z")
I can only hazard a guess. Milk that comes through regular channels has been out of the cow for a longer period of time (at least a few days, maybe more) before you put it in your fridge. So, for you, is spoils quicker. I’d bet that time elapsed between end of the teat to spoiling is the same, it’s just that your unpasturized milk spent more of that time with you. If it was milked by hand, it’s very unlikely to be sterile, although refrigeration certainly slows bacterial growth. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raw-milk/631662/3 "2012-08-16T14:26:57Z")
We buy pasturized organic nonfat milk at local grocer, and it normally has date of good use well over a month from the time of purchase. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raw-milk/631662/4 "2012-08-16T14:32:17Z")
Moooving from IMHO to Cafe Society. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raw-milk/631662/5 "2012-08-16T14:51:04Z")
Since my non-organic homogenized mass market milk is regularly Sell-by date stamped two weeks (regular pasteurized) to a month (ultra-pasteurized) after I purchase it, and stays just fine for another week after that date…I think either you’re suffering from confirmation bias (misremembering how long milk from the grocery store lasts) or **Long Time First Time** is correct and your grocer gets milk that’s already older than the milk my grocer gets, or his turnover is slower and you’re getting old milk. I’m in Chicago, hub of the food industry, so it’s very possible our stores get milk a day or two from the cow, and people further out don’t get it until the end of the week when the trucks roll into town. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raw-milk/631662/6 "2012-08-16T15:15:07Z")
If there is an unbroken chain of refrigeration from the dairy to your fridge the milk can keep for quite a long time. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raw-milk/631662/7 "2012-08-16T15:24:26Z")
Does the cream on top help slow down spoilage? It’s making me think of a flora cap on sherry wine. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raw-milk/631662/8 "2012-08-16T15:36:44Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Does the cream on top help slow down spoilage? It’s making me think of a flora cap on sherry wine. I thought of that but the lactobacillis (the bacteria that spoils the milk) is anerobic. Cream itself does spoil more slowly but IIRC its because it contains less water, not because it contains less air. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raw-milk/631662/9 "2012-08-16T16:03:13Z")
> [@Floater](#): > > If there is an unbroken chain of refrigeration from the dairy to your fridge the milk can keep for quite a long time. And even time out of refrigeration between taking it out of the dairy case and finally getting it into your fridge at home will count against how long it will last. ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raw-milk/631662/10 "2012-08-16T16:31:53Z")
We drink raw milk almost exclusively, but I cannot attest to how long it will stay fresh because it doesn’t last that long in our house. We do not buy direct from the farm, so I am not sure how long it has been out of the cow when we buy it. The half-gallon we purchased yesterday has a date of Aug 29. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raw-milk/631662/11 "2012-08-16T18:34:03Z")
> [@Rhiannon8404](#): > > We drink raw milk almost exclusively, but I cannot attest to how long it will stay fresh because it doesn’t last that long in our house. We do not buy direct from the farm, so I am not sure how long it has been out of the cow when we buy it. The half-gallon we purchased yesterday has a date of Aug 29. Where do you buy it (and what state are you in)? ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raw-milk/631662/12 "2012-08-16T19:34:50Z")
Raw milk won’t ‘spoil’ in the same way as pasteurized milk. Pasteurized milk basically goes rotten. Raw milk clabbers over time (gets a tangy taste and thicker) "Traditionally, clabbered milk is made by allowing raw milk to stand until it has thickened, a process which takes 24-48 hours. The milk is also typically kept warm, encouraging the growth of beneficial bacteria. As it thickens, the acidity of the milk increases, preventing the growth of harmful bacteria and creating a very distinctive tang which many people greatly enjoy. " > **[What is Clabbered Milk? (with pictures)](https://www.delightedcooking.com/what-is-clabbered-milk.htm)** > > Clabbered milk is milk that has been allowed to naturally sour, becoming tangy and rich. It's often sold in grocery stores as... To prevent the process, keep the milk below 40 degrees F. Theoretically, it could last up to 4 weeks, but no milk has lasted 4 weeks in my house, so who knows. ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raw-milk/631662/13 "2012-08-16T19:42:26Z")
> [@Ca3799](#): > > the dairy is a certified and licensed raw milk dairy. Licensed dairies are routinely tested. The frequency is determined by your state. Typically, that means that they send a sample for testing every x days. If they get a positive test, then they usually need to dump all product, sterilize and determine the source of the bacteria (e.g. it could be coming from an infected cow). A raw dairy near Pittsburgh popped a positive test and the results came back fast enough that no milk from that batch had actually been sold. That didn’t stop it from making the news papers because of the positive test on a RAW MILK DAIRY!!! But the testing turn around is very fast. Most larger dairy operations also test their milk/cows at each milking in-house so they can keep ahead of any infections. ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raw-milk/631662/14 "2012-08-16T20:04:02Z")
> [@Long\_Time\_First\_Time](#): > > If it was milked by hand, it’s very unlikely to be sterile Kind of a nit pick, but raw milk by definition is not sterile. Not sterile is not the same as contaminated by pathogenic bacteria. Here is testimony about pathogenic bacteria in milk. The general bacteria discussion starts on page 12 ( [http://www.realmilk.com/documents/expert-testimony-0508.pdf](http://www.realmilk.com/documents/expert-testimony-0508.pdf) – pdf file) Here is a source for where raw milk might be available for sale: [http://www.realmilk.com/where03.html](http://www.realmilk.com/where03.html) ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raw-milk/631662/15 "2012-08-16T20:51:05Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Where do you buy it (and what state are you in)? We’re in California, and buy it at the Sacramento Natural Foods Co-Op. I’m **Rhiannon8404** ’s husband, FTR. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raw-milk/631662/16 "2012-08-16T20:54:38Z")
> [@Enkel](#): > > Raw milk won’t ‘spoil’ in the same way as pasteurized milk. Pasteurized milk basically goes rotten. Raw milk clabbers over time (gets a tangy taste and thicker) > > "Traditionally, clabbered milk is made by allowing raw milk to stand until it has thickened, a process which takes 24-48 hours. The milk is also typically kept warm, encouraging the growth of beneficial bacteria. As it thickens, the acidity of the milk increases, preventing the growth of harmful bacteria and creating a very distinctive tang which many people greatly enjoy. " I can attest to that. When our milk is starting to ‘go off’, it starts to get a ‘sweet’ taste, to my tongue. At that point, it’s still good for a couple days if we’re going to be cooking with it, as that masks the flavor, but not for drinking straight or pouring over cereal (unless you like the taste, which I don’t). And if that fails, the cats will still drink it 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raw-milk/631662/17 "2012-09-22T13:19:05Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > I can attest to that. When our milk is starting to ‘go off’, it starts to get a ‘sweet’ taste, to my tongue. At that point, it’s still good for a couple days if we’re going to be cooking with it, as that masks the flavor, but not for drinking straight or pouring over cereal (unless you like the taste, which I don’t). > > And if that fails, the cats will still drink it 🙂 We also drink raw milk. On the rare occasion it’s been around for more than a couple of weeks, my wife has used it to make whey for marinating corned beef, or made cheese with it.