# Ray Davies and Moby get into it over Lola **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [March 24, 2026, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734 "2026-03-24T16:50:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/1 "2026-03-24T16:50:09Z")
> **[The Kinks Respond to Moby Bashing 'Lola': 'Who the F-ck Is Moby?'](https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/the-kinks-respond-moby-lola-transphobic-1235535721/)** > > Moby recently said that the lyrics to the 1970 Kinks classic 'Lola' were 'transphobic,' infuriating Ray and Dave Davies. So recently Moby critized the Kinks song Lola as transphobic and Ray Davies has responded starting a proper pop star beef over it. Admittedly I’m always going to be team Ray in this match up (as long as Ray Davies hasn’t turned [gammon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gammon_(insult)) in his twilight years, which he hasn’t AFAIK\*). And regardless of the facts, his response of “who the f\_ck is Moby?” is the perfect riposte. That said I really don’t see what Moby is complaining about with [Lola](https://genius.com/The-kinks-lola-lyrics). I mean I’m cis-male heteosexual (but so is Moby) but also none of the trans people I know have a problem with It. It’s obviously massively progressive by 1970 British standards, in that era (and until much later, it definitely still was when I first listened to the song in the 1980s) massively virulent overt homophobia and transphobia was completely the norm. Of course thats somewhat irrelevant, just because something was progressive by the standards of 60 years ago, it doesn’t make it something you want to listen to in 2026. But still even by today’s standard there is nothing wrong with Lola. It’s basically a love song to a trans person. True the singer ultimately spurns Lola’s advances but there is no hint of “dirty duplicitous perverts seducing young men”. If you want to interpret it that way that’s on you. Literally to the next line is “Well, that’s the way that I want it to stay. And I always want it to be that way for my Lola”. The singer only has kind words for Lola and there is no hint the singer thinks anything bad happened (except maybe his decision to spurn their advances) What thinks the dope? ‘\*’ - if I’m wrong and he has gone off the deep end politically in his dotage. Please don’t tell me. Let me have this one last rock star idol of my youth 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/2 "2026-03-24T17:00:10Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > What thinks the dope? I think it comes down to two possible readings of the last few lines: Well I’m not the world’s most masculine man But I know what I am and I’m glad I’m a man And so is Lola So, is Lola “Glad he’s (the singer) a man”, or is Lola a man? The latter could be seen as denying Lola’s gender identity. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/3 "2026-03-24T17:03:06Z")
Are we being charitable or not? It’s really in our hands and minds to do either (thus is the nature of poetic license). fwiw Davies out spoken views are pro-trans (but your interpretation need not align with his own, of course). ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/4 "2026-03-24T17:03:26Z")
Moby’s hot take was embarrassingly ahistorical. It’s puzzling how, at 60 years old, he could still lack perspective in that way. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/5 "2026-03-24T17:05:52Z")
The RS article doesn’t really have much substance, other than the Davieses don’t know who Moby is and don’t care (and after checking out some of his music, they’re not fans.) Here’s what Moby said in the Guardian interview: > **The song I can no longer listen to** > Lola by the Kinks came up on a Spotify playlist, and I thought the lyrics were gross and transphobic. I like their early music, but I was really taken aback at how unevolved the lyrics are. The article also mentions an unpublished essay by trans artist Jayne County, that Dave shared on Twitter. She says in the short essay that for her “Lola” was the song that “broke the ice” that the world includes all sorts of people, including trans people. She says it will always “be a special song for me.” So, I defer to the trans woman, who was alive and aware at the time of the song’s release. If she’s ok with it, I’m OK with it. It’s not for me to tell trans people how to feel. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/6 "2026-03-24T17:06:56Z")
Back in the 90s my wife was a big fan of Moby and so we went to see him speak (no music). It was actually an interview format but his friend was the “interviewer”. I don’t remember much about the talk but I do remember coming out of it thinking that Moby is a fucking simpleton and that hasn’t changed. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/7 "2026-03-24T17:12:52Z")
I have a cousin whom I don’t know very well. He lives across the country. The few times I did hang out with him, he made it known that his whole personality was Moby. And he’s annoying af (my cousin). He lives in S. Dakota now and is most likely a hermit prepper. He probably doesn’t like Moby anymore since Moby is so pro-trans. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/8 "2026-03-24T17:18:09Z")
I was a fan of Moby for a bit in the 90s, but he became that annoying person who makes bold statements based on some superficial understanding of a topic and ends up looking like an idiot. I can pretty safely guess these days that if he says something, it’s going to be stupid. But that said… > [@griffin1977](#): > > his response of “who the f\_ck is Moby?” is the perfect riposte. No, that’s a shitty response. A good argument is a good argument even if it comes from a nobody, and a bad one is a bad one whether it comes from someone known or unknown. Ray just sounds like an idiot himself who can’t keep up with the times. Ray had plenty of good points he could make against Moby’s argument, and he should argue those instead of exposing his own ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/9 "2026-03-24T17:20:28Z")
I read the Guardian article one or two days ago. I disagree with Moby and I still like Lola. Great song. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/10 "2026-03-24T17:20:29Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Well I’m not the world’s most masculine man > But I know what I am and I’m glad I’m a man > And so is Lola > > So, is Lola “Glad he’s (the singer) a man”, or is Lola a man? The latter could be seen as denying Lola’s gender identity. To the extent that I’ve bothered to think about it up until now, I took it as being deliberately ambiguous in a cheeky way. But the song is definitely pro-Lola: _Girls will be boys and boys will be girls It’s a mixed up, muddled up, shook up world Except for Lola_ Lola is Lola. And whatever Lola wants, Lola gets… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/11 "2026-03-24T17:22:26Z")
So from what I can tell, Moby’s comment comes from this “Honest Playlist” series on Guardian where “Song I can no longer listen to” is always one of the categories. It’s not like Moby put out an article saying The Kinks are transphobic. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/12 "2026-03-24T17:22:51Z")
The song is a product of its time. Meaning, it could not be explicit and still get airplay. Being too clever by half makes it an enduring classic. But! Despite any meaning we may ascribe to the lyrics, the song is deliberately ambiguous. Lola may, in fact, be a woman. Possible interpretations: Lola is a woman, the singer and her have sex Lola is a woman, they do not have sex Lola is a man, he and the singer have sex Lola is a man, he and the singer don’t have sex Lola is a man, her and the singer have sex, but he is so inexperienced and naive, he thinks she’s a mannish woman (the ignorance we used to have as children about sex and gender doesn’t always go away as soon as it should. Not everyone had a good health class, or “played doctor” to find out what’s what.) The singer may not know if he is gay or not, and whichever gender Lola is, he just wants to remain friends. That’s the beauty of it! It doesn’t mean anything! And Moby is dumb, whoever the fuck he is. PS I always heard the line as “I know what I am and **in bed** I’m a man, and so’s Lola.” In those days of manly men, no self respecting guy would let the woman be on top, like a man. What a sad time. Doesn’t change the choices above, but I prefer my lyric. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/13 "2026-03-24T17:26:55Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > Ray had plenty of good points he could make against Moby’s argument, and he should argue those instead of exposing his own ignorance. Or, “some critic somewhere is calling out my lyrics from 55 years ago, incorrectly at that. I don’t have time for, nor am I obligated to engage in a public debate every time someone with an audience has something to say about me.” … which is basically what “who the fuck is Moby” says. With a little more scorn thrown in. _He’s so unhip that when you say Moby He thinks you’re talking about Moby Dick Whoever he was The man ain’t got no culture_ ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/14 "2026-03-24T17:34:17Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > He’s so unhip that when you say Moby > He thinks you’re talking about Moby Dick Incidentally, Moby’s real name is Richard Melville Hall he is related to Herman Melville according to family lore. He got the nickname Moby as a baby because of that and the fact that he was a large baby. He uses his family nickname professionally. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/15 "2026-03-24T17:37:12Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > nor am I obligated to engage in a public debate every time someone with an audience has something to say about me. The way to not engage in a public debate is to not engage in a public debate. Making a statement to say “who is this?” _is_ engaging in a public debate, and it’s a poor way to do it. To be fair, it sounds like Ray just said that to his brother, so maybe Dave is the one making a poor argument. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/16 "2026-03-24T17:38:01Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I don’t remember much about the talk but I do remember coming out of it thinking that Moby is a fucking simpleton and that hasn’t changed. FWIW: > **[Natalie Portman criticises 'creepy' Moby over 'disturbing' account of friendship](https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/may/22/natalie-portman-criticises-moby-friendship-dating-memoir)** > > Musician says in memoir the pair dated, but Portman disputes account, saying ‘my recollection is a much older man being creepy with me’ ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/17 "2026-03-24T17:41:10Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > The way to not engage in a public debate is to not engage in a public debate. Making a statement to say “who is this?” _is_ engaging in a public debate, and it’s a poor way to do it. We don’t have to follow Robert’s Rules of Order in all circumstances. A “fuck off” is perfectly fine sometimes. And “who the fuck is Moby” is basically that. The song is great. I have never heard of Moby. I am quite satisfied with how the debate played out. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/18 "2026-03-24T17:44:06Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Despite any meaning we may ascribe to the lyrics, the song is deliberately ambiguous. Lola may, in fact, be a woman. Are you trying to suggest that there’s an interpretation of the song where Lola _isn’t trans_? Because framing that as “Lola may, in fact, be a woman” is a fucking terrible way to express that. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/19 "2026-03-24T17:44:59Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Moby’s real name is Richard Melville Hall he is related to Herman Melville according to family lore. He got the nickname Moby as a baby because of that and the fact that he was a large baby. He uses his family nickname professionally Man, could you imagine if he wasn’t related, and ended up with the stage name “Man, That’s One Fat-Ass Baby”? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/20 "2026-03-24T17:46:55Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Back in the 90s my wife was a big fan of Moby and so we went to see him speak (no music). It was actually an interview format but his friend was the “interviewer”. I don’t remember much about the talk but I do remember coming out of it thinking that Moby is a fucking simpleton and that hasn’t changed. I just did a search and that talk was actually in May of 2005. He’s still an idiot. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734.md?page=2)