# Ray Davies and Moby get into it over Lola **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [March 24, 2026, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734 "2026-03-24T16:50:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/61 "2026-03-24T20:49:26Z")
And it might be more productive if you calmly stated why his wording was problematic rather than just start swearing at him. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/62 "2026-03-24T20:55:03Z")
Edit: fuck it. Not worth the effort. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/63 "2026-03-24T21:02:07Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > He’s so unhip that when you say Moby > He thinks you’re talking about Moby Dick > Whoever he was > The man ain’t got no culture Just wanted to mention that I appreciated the [reference](https://www.songfacts.com/lyrics/simon-garfunkel/a-simple-desultory-philippic-or-how-i-was-robert-mcnamarad-into-submission). ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/64 "2026-03-24T21:08:00Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I don’t want to sign up for Rolling Stone, so I haven’t read the article, but it doesn’t sound like Moby is insisting that “Lola” be banned, or that Ray Davies is a bigot for writing it. He just can’t get over his modern associations with the song, which ruins his enjoyment of it. It was in [the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/music/2026/mar/22/moby-honest-playlist-donna-summer-celine-dion), which doesn’t require a subscription. It’s part of their “honest playlist” series where they ask a musician a set of 12 questions like “first song I fell in love with,” the song I do at karaoke," and “song I secretly like but tell everybody I hate.” The entirety of Moby’s comments on _Lola_: > **The song I can no longer listen to** > Lola by the Kinks came up on a Spotify playlist, and I thought the lyrics were gross and transphobic. I like their early music, but I was really taken aback at how unevolved the lyrics are. Which I think demonstrates a superficial understanding of the song, but it’s not quite the rant that some people seem to be imagining. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/65 "2026-03-24T21:13:26Z")
Yeah, that’s definitely sounds like he was expecting a song from the '70s to fully embrace a modern understanding of transgender identities, which isn’t a great take, but “unevolved” is pretty light criticism. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/66 "2026-03-24T21:22:10Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > part of was leaning hard into gender-ambiguous fashion. Glam was just months away. The song’s vibe is one of wonder, not disgust. There is a big difference between wearing flamboyant costumes and make up, and actually being accepting of LGBT lifestyles (especially the T part). Even when the likes of Bolan and Bowie did come out a few years later it didn’t lead to a widespread acceptance, and this was before all that (and Lola was far more overtly pro LGBT than anything that Bowie or Bolan, et al wrote) ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/67 "2026-03-24T21:36:47Z")
Well, Bowie and Ray Davies (among others) helped me to explore and accept my own non-binary identity in the 70s, and I’m forever grateful. Much of the language of gender identity was different in those days, though. Some people did choose gender reassignment, which was quite difficult; in 1970 (the year _Lola_ came out) the BBC musical arranger and composer Wally Stott (_Goon Show, Hancock’s Half Hour_) transitioned into Angela Morley, and went on to compose music for _Watership Down_ and _Star Wars_. But people who medically transitioned were sometimes seen as more committed than those who were transgender (a term that wasn’t really common at the time) without transitioning. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/68 "2026-03-24T21:39:34Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I appreciated the [reference](https://www.songfacts.com/lyrics/simon-garfunkel/a-simple-desultory-philippic-or-how-i-was-robert-mcnamarad-into-submission). Shows how cultured I am that I thought this was a reference to that time Eminem got into to into it with Moby 🤷 (also I guess how much I overestimate the lyrically skills of Eminem 😉 ) Though bringing it back to OP. I bet Moby is kicking himself when he saw Ray Davies’ response, so much better than his retort to Eminem that “actually he doesn’t consider his music Techno”. Sure he wishes he’d just shot back “who the f\_ck is Eminem”. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/69 "2026-03-24T21:43:31Z")
The song definitely uses different terminology than we would nowadays. Today, we wouldn’t say that “Girls will be boys and boys will be girls”; we’d say that some people always were girls, despite superficially resembling boys, and vice-versa. But I think that to focus in on that is to miss the point. What’s important about “Lola” isn’t precisely what Lola is, or precisely how she’s described. What’s important is that Lola is OK. Whatever and whoever she is, she’s OK, because it’s all OK. And that’s a message that’s just as true and relevant now as it was when the song was written. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/70 "2026-03-24T21:50:59Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > Some people did choose gender reassignment, which was quite difficult; in 1970 (the year _Lola_ came out) the BBC musical arranger and composer Wally Stott (_Goon Show, Hancock’s Half Hour_) transitioned into Angela Morley, and went on to compose music for _Watership Down_ and _Star Wars_. Also Wendy Carlos in 1972 after living as a woman since 1968. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/71 "2026-03-24T21:57:57Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Whatever “beef” seems to be something being manufactured to try to make a story out of it. Possibly but the same could be said of like 90% of pop star “beefs” IMO ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/72 "2026-03-24T22:03:52Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Possibly but the same could be said of like 90% of pop star “beefs” IMO That might be true, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Jaycat.again](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat.again/32/11525_2.png) [@Jaycat.again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaycat.again)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/73 "2026-03-24T22:05:51Z")
I don’t know anything about “Moby” (was he in Moby Grape?) But, it is possible to dislike something, for whatever reason, and not broadcast your opinion to the world. That’s what most of us do. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/74 "2026-03-24T22:10:22Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Also Wendy Carlos in 1972 after living as a woman since 1968. As I mentioned above, the transwomen Lou Reed described in “Walk on the Wild Side” were real people who were in Andy Warhol’s social circle. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/75 "2026-03-24T22:12:00Z")
> [@Jaycat.again](#): > > But, it is possible to dislike something, for whatever reason, and not broadcast your opinion to the world. This opinion came out in what was essentially an interview. To not give your opinion during a feature where the point is to give your opinion on particular music tracks would make for a pretty pointless exercise. And then, again, the “controversy” came from when some gadfly approached the Kinks and asked them to respond. It’s no different than if someone in high school asked Teen A what they thought of Teen B’s shoes, and Teen A said they didn’t really like them, and then went to Teen B and told them that Teen A didn’t like their shoes, and Teen B said they don’t even know who Teen A was, and now the school is abuzz about this huge new feud going on between these people who have never met and probably could not care less about the whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/76 "2026-03-24T22:16:43Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > The song I can no longer listen to That question would stump me. Even after having Andrew Hickey point out the rampant misogyny in the Stone’s _Aftermath_, I can still bob my head to "Under My Thumb\* and “Stupid Girl”. If I liked a song when I first heard it, I can still listen to it now, warts and all. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/77 "2026-03-24T22:19:34Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Well, yes, but the whole point of Moby’s rant is that he is re-interpreting the song with modern sensibilities, a practice which is depressingly common today. That’s why people think he’s an idiot I’d argue thats not true. If it was that, it would be absolutely fine. Just because it was progressive by 1970 standards it doesn’t mean you find it personally acceptable to include in your record collection in 2026. Its absolutely fine to judge a record by 2026 standards when deciding if you want to listen to it in 2026 He just misinterpreted the song period. It is completely acceptable by 2026 standards and not transphobic. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/78 "2026-03-24T22:23:41Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > that the BBC was more concerned with the lyric saying “cherry cola” instead of “Coca Cola” will never be not funny. There is a similar story about Walk on the Wild Side that _no one_ expected the BBC to play. The British saxophonist on the record in particular was like “nice song, shame I’ll never hear it”. In the end it wasn’t banned as none of the people at the BBC in charge of such things knew what the term ‘giving head’ meant 😉 ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/79 "2026-03-24T22:26:59Z")
A tempest in a teapot. Just the latest in the cavalcade of an artist offering up a controversial opinion of another artist or their work. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2026, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/80 "2026-03-24T22:32:46Z")
He talked about techno, He talked about peace He lectured three hours on sustainable yeast. M‑O‑B‑Y, Moby. He said, “Dance with me now, let the rhythm flow,” But the rhythm he meant was philosophical, though. M‑O‑B‑Y, Moby. Well I don’t know what he did to me, But I left that club humming in a minor key. Oh Moby… M‑M‑M‑Moby. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734.md?page=5)