# Ray Davies and Moby get into it over Lola **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [March 24, 2026, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734 "2026-03-24T16:50:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2026, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/101 "2026-03-25T14:30:48Z")
Re: “Under My Thumb” and much of the material on _Aftermath_. Jagger has expressed what one _might_ generously call regret, “Obviously, I was having a bit of trouble. I wasn’t in a good relationship. Or I was in too many bad relationships. I had so many girlfriends at that point. None of them seemed to care they weren’t pleasing me very much.” So close… ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2026, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/102 "2026-03-25T14:40:48Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > I’d argue thats a unfair comparison. That was a joke about the thread spinning off into a bit of a hijack, including my own post. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2026, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/103 "2026-03-25T14:59:58Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Here in Chicago, I don’t think I’ve ever heard that song with the “giving head” line cut from it. Way back in the day I’d hear that song on WCKG and was surprised that they’d play it. Then they cut the “giving head” line, then I think they just cut the verse (probably to avoid the empty space at ‘giving head’), then they cut “…and the colored girls go…” and eventually I was left wondering WHY they bothered playing it. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2026, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/104 "2026-03-25T15:16:32Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > That was a joke about the thread spinning off into a bit of a hijack, including my own post. It’s a good topic. I spun it off into another thread: [What is the song you can no longer listen to](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-song-you-can-no-longer-listen-to/1028758) ---
**Author:** ![dirtball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dirtball/32/18772_2.png) [@dirtball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dirtball)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2026, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/105 "2026-03-25T15:19:33Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > > [@dirtball](#): > > > > I’m of the opinion that it was just to cultivate their bad-boy image > > That’s still pretty awful though. Oh, yeah. Not arguing that point. I think the most charitable view is that the song is a bad idea, no matter what angle you look at it from. I’ll say, though, that I like the instrumental part quite a bit. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2026, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/106 "2026-03-25T15:32:18Z")
I mostly hear it now on XRT. I probably heard it on CKG back in the day, but don’t rememeber the edit. It’s possible I’ve heard the edit and just didn’t notice it because it was an entire cut verse and not just silence in the middle of a verse. But I’m reasonably certain I’ve heard it the full version within the last year on XRT with nothing cut from it. But different stations have different policies, and play different edits of songs. For example, one station plays the album edit of “Melt With You” (that doesn’t have the backing vocals after the first verse and chorus, among some other minor differences), while another plays the single version (which I prefer). Every time I hear “Sweet Child o’ Mine” with the “where do we go from here” coda, I get excited – most stations seem to cut it. That kind of stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2026, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/107 "2026-03-25T15:35:24Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > But different stations have different policies, and play different edits of songs. Different eras as well. I assume someone at WCKG management had a hand-wringing phase in the early 90s in the era of Tipper Gore, etc. I just remember thinking “Why are they bothering to play a song with 30% of the lyrics cut out?” before I moved on to different music/stations (i.e. got more into alternative) ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2026, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/108 "2026-03-25T15:44:06Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > the narrator mentions that he’d “never kissed a woman before”. It also works better if the narrator is seen as a young naive gay man in denial, I swing the other way, as it were. I think the singer is straight, but so naive he’s never seen a transvestite before and has never considered the possibility. So he spends an evening with Lola, and kisses, but later realizes Lola is a man. But he likes her anyway, but is not going to have sex, because he’s straight. So they’ll part on good terms. But neither is angry about the time they had. That’s how unmixed up Lola is. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2026, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/109 "2026-03-25T16:02:32Z")
I dunno, because **after** he pushes her away and heads toward the door he stops and falls to the floor, and _then_ we get the lyric: _Well, I’d left home just a week before_ _And I’d never, ever kissed a woman before_ _Lola smiled and took me by the hand_ _She said, “Little boy, gonna make you a man”_ After which he asserts that he’s “a man” and “glad”. So my read is that they did indeed have sex. But, y’know, it’s just a song. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2026, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/110 "2026-03-25T16:36:49Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > But, y’know, it’s just a song. And a darn good one! You know, some old stuff gets so hopelessly dated that it becomes cringe-worthy. (like say, Under My Thumb). 56 years on, Lola is still good, and relevant, even in these more enlightened times. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2026, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/111 "2026-03-25T21:54:23Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > But, y’know, it’s just a song. > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > And a darn good one! Off of a pretty great album, IMHO ( _[Lola Versus Powerman and the Moneygoround, Part One](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lola_Versus_Powerman_and_the_Moneygoround,_Part_One)_) ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2026, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/112 "2026-03-25T22:22:57Z")
I agree with almost everybody here that Lola hasn’t got even a tiny trace of transphobia. And I have to add that I’ve always thought that it’s the perfect rock song. Perfect, witty and cleverly ambiguous and raunchy lyrics (mind-blowing for the times), and an irresistibly catchy melody and instrumental performance. Ray Davies is a genius songwriter, and IMHO he also managed to write the perfect pop song, Waterloo Sunset. And Moby is a dolt. (though I even saw him live 26 years ago, while I never caught the Kinks, sadly) ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2026, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/113 "2026-03-25T22:45:43Z")
Has anyone other than I seen both The Kinks and Moby live? (Slightly cheating because Moby was a talk, not a music performance). ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2026, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/114 "2026-03-25T22:46:01Z")
And the funniest part of all is that the Beeb didn’t have any problems with transgender or transvestites or unmarried sexnannigans or ambiguous gay duos, but…that singing “coca cola” is free advertising, and must be banned! ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2026, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/115 "2026-03-25T22:53:37Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > And I have to add that I’ve always thought that it’s the perfect rock song. Seconded. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2026, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/116 "2026-03-25T23:08:35Z")
> [@Dung\_Beetle](#): > > Re Under My Thumb: I have always believed that the singer _thinks_ he’s got her where he wants her, but he is in error. I know the lyrics don’t support that, but it’s the vibe I get. Yeah, I also see that one as the singer performing a “bad boy” character with some room for irony. I agree that there’s nothing in the lyrics of “Under My Thumb” that would _definitely_ indicate that’s the case. but it would be consistent with, e.g., “Heart of Stone,” which is written in a similar persona, but it’s clear by the second verse that the singer is protesting way too much. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2026, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/117 "2026-03-25T23:08:58Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Has anyone other than I seen both The Kinks and Moby live? (Slightly cheating because Moby was a talk, not a music performance). I’ve seen both. In fact, The Kinks were my first real concert that I went to with friends rather than getting dragged along by parents. It was the Word of Mouth tour, maybe 1984? I don’t remember where I saw Moby, I think it might have been a festival. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2026, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/118 "2026-03-26T04:07:45Z")
My MIL named a kitten “Lola” because she heard that song in the cab when she was talking the kitten home. > [@JRDelirious](#): > > True. Where we sit in 2026 we may encounter an expectation to default to an absolute unconditional identification as woman, but Lola may indeed be feminine-presenting nonconforming yet considering themself a man. I have a friend in 2026 who is feminine presenting and non-conforming and considers himself a man. He wears a name tag (at events where that’s done) that has his pronouns on it, just to be clear about it. So yes, it’s possible Lola was a feminine presenting guy. Lola was probably trans. > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Oh? Because I think Lola may actually be a woman Lola was probably a trans woman. So yes, actually a women. But i don’t think that’s what you meant. Anyway, it’s pretty clear that Lola had a dick. And that they had sex even though that surprised the singer. I’ve always liked the song. I wonder what my trans friends think of it, though. They are all a lot younger than i am. I grew up in an age when being trans was nearly unthinkable. If you grew up thinking it’s unremarkable to be trans, the song may be awkward. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2026, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/119 "2026-03-26T08:47:33Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > I think it comes down to two possible readings of the last few lines: > > Well I’m not the world’s most masculine man > But I know what I am and I’m glad I’m a man > And so is Lola > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > PS I always heard the line as “I know what I am and **in bed** I’m a man, and so’s Lola.” Upon looking it up, the former version is correct, but I have also always only heard it as the latter as well. I guess it’s a mondegreen that absolutely makes sense in the context of the song. In fact, I’m relistening to it right now and it STILL sounds more like the latter to me, and [Kissthisguy.com](http://Kissthisguy.com) has listed it since 2009, so it must be a common misinterpretation. My take? He’s young and naive (I left home just a week before, and I never ever kissed a woman before), he didn’t know that people like Lola existed, they had sex, he’s not into men, but he’s still cool with what happened. How Lola identifies isn’t really important and is left to the listener’s imagination. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2026, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734/120 "2026-03-26T14:53:40Z")
Lola has one of the best most recognizable opening riffs of all time. It’s a great song but it is on my list of songs I won’t listen to anymore. Not because of its lyrics but because it was played so much on the rock radio of my youth and later the classic rock radio of my adulthood. I’ve just heard it way too much. I will say it’s one of the few songs on the radio that I like the live version better. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-and-moby-get-into-it-over-lola/1028734.md?page=7)