# Ray Davies is the Greatest Wordsmith in Rock Music **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 25, 2008, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-is-the-greatest-wordsmith-in-rock-music/474372 "2008-11-25T02:56:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-is-the-greatest-wordsmith-in-rock-music/474372/1 "2008-11-25T02:56:11Z")
IMO, of course. šŸ˜‰ No one has combined the cleverness, wit, biting satire and raw _attitude_ better than Ray. Just for starters, see: Lola Celluloid Heroes (Wish I could Fly Like) Superman Art Lover A Little Bit of Abuse Low Budget Give the People What They Want He may not be the greatest songwriter in pop music (although heā€™s definitely in the conversation,) but no one has made a career of turning a phrase like him. You disagree. Tell me your choice. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-is-the-greatest-wordsmith-in-rock-music/474372/2 "2008-11-25T03:17:45Z")
Ray Davies is God! One need only listen to his _Working Manā€™s Cafe_ to understand his connection with the common dude! I agree wholeheartedly! Q ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-is-the-greatest-wordsmith-in-rock-music/474372/3 "2008-11-25T04:00:53Z")
I like Davies, but there are many better wordsmiths. If I had to pick one, Iā€™d probably go with Keith Reid (Procul Harum) Other options: Billy Joel, John Lennon, Jim Capaldi/Steve Winwood), Robert Wyatt, Robbie Robertson, Captain Beefheart, and Frank Zappa. ---
**Author:** ![deadindays](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@deadindays](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deadindays)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-is-the-greatest-wordsmith-in-rock-music/474372/4 "2008-11-25T04:05:43Z")
Davies is great but Iā€™ll go with Dylan. Like a Rolling Stone, Ballad of a Thin Man, Queen Jane Approximately, etc. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-is-the-greatest-wordsmith-in-rock-music/474372/5 "2008-11-25T04:26:30Z")
Heā€™s touring the eastern US now, you know. Get your tickets now! I saw him earlier this year at The Warfield in SF; a fun, fantastic show. What a joy it was to shout out "_Dedicated Follower of Fashion"_ at the top of my lungs with two thousand other people! Besides being one of rockā€™s finest songwriters, heā€™s also one of rockā€™s venerable raconteurs. The MTV ā€œStorytellersā€ series was made for artists like Ray, who like to engage their audience and tell a tale or two about their rock and roll (mis)adventures. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-is-the-greatest-wordsmith-in-rock-music/474372/6 "2008-11-25T05:00:05Z")
I donā€™t know the Kinks stuff intimately butā€¦Pete Townshend. Didnā€™t we do this thread not that long ago, Kinks vs. Who? I saw the Who in concert circa 1990 and I was amazed at how many songs were really anthemic. Wonā€™t Get Fooled Againā€¦Love Reign Oā€™er Meā€¦See Me, Feel Meā€¦Long Live Rockā€¦it just went on and on. Some astute doper said, IIRC, that Davies rendered wry comments about daily life while Townshend was swinging for the fence. _Itā€™s only teenage wasteland._ ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-is-the-greatest-wordsmith-in-rock-music/474372/7 "2008-11-25T09:37:36Z")
> [@lobotomyboy63](#): > > Some astute doper said, IIRC, that Davies rendered wry comments about daily life while Townshend was swinging for the fence. _Itā€™s only teenage wasteland._ Different approach, though: Townsend wrote about what was going on inside; Davies wrote about what was going on outside. For pure wordsmitherery, if not emotional impact, Iā€™d go for Elvis Costello, and chuck in Paul Westerberg as a wild card: that guy can _write_. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-is-the-greatest-wordsmith-in-rock-music/474372/8 "2008-11-25T10:51:32Z")
No. You go for whatever hits you at the moment- youā€™re the most vulnerable, and you let it overtake you with its feeling. For me, it was the song ā€œArthurā€ā€¦ For someone else it might have been ā€œAll Day And All Of The Nightā€. But however and why-ever it was written, it had the sympathetic and sometime diaboltical eye of Ray Davies for a need to be put to music. Man! I **hate** like hell that Ray and The Kinks were reduced to playing small clubs here in the States!!! God Save The Kinks!!! Quasi ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-is-the-greatest-wordsmith-in-rock-music/474372/9 "2008-11-25T11:42:58Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#): > > No. > > You go for whatever hits you at the moment- youā€™re the most vulnerable, and you let it overtake you with its feeling. > > For me, it was the song ā€œArthurā€ā€¦ > > For someone else it might have been ā€œAll Day And All Of The Nightā€. > > But however and why-ever it was written, it had the sympathetic and sometime diaboltical eye of Ray Davies for a need to be put to music. > > Man! I **hate** like hell that Ray and The Kinks were reduced to playing small clubs here in the States!!! > > God Save The Kinks!!! > > Quasi I saw them at The (then) Brendan Byrne Arena at the Meadowlands in NJ in the 80s. They rocked. The early stuff with the heavy guitars was incredible in that space. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-is-the-greatest-wordsmith-in-rock-music/474372/10 "2008-11-25T11:45:15Z")
> [@lobotomyboy63](#): > > I donā€™t know the Kinks stuff intimately butā€¦Pete Townshend. Didnā€™t we do this thread not that long ago, Kinks vs. Who? I saw the Who in concert circa 1990 and I was amazed at how many songs were really anthemic. Wonā€™t Get Fooled Againā€¦Love Reign Oā€™er Meā€¦See Me, Feel Meā€¦Long Live Rockā€¦it just went on and on. > > Some astute doper said, IIRC, that Davies rendered wry comments about daily life while Townshend was swinging for the fence. _Itā€™s only teenage wasteland._ The OP wasnā€™t about who the better band was (pun unintended.) I did start a thread awhile back about The Who vs. Zeppelin. In this case Iā€™m talking pure lyrics. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-is-the-greatest-wordsmith-in-rock-music/474372/11 "2008-11-25T14:29:41Z")
In terms of pure rock nā€™ roll essence, I must go with Little Richard: > [@](#): > > **A Womp-bomp-a-loom-op-a-womp-bam-boom! Tutti Frutti, all Rooty!** Clear runner up is Paul McCartney (with essential ā€œno, donā€™t change itā€ input from John Lennon): > [@](#): > > **She was just seventeen - you know what I mean** Beyond that, all else is details. šŸ˜‰ Having said that, Ray Davies rocks as an observer of life and how he captures it. But I am not surprised he never blew up in the States - he writes British short stories; less likely for Yanks to relate to. Some songs broke through, but The Kinks never really got traction - same with The Jam / Paul Weller. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-is-the-greatest-wordsmith-in-rock-music/474372/12 "2008-11-25T14:33:48Z")
Wordsmith? Leonard Cohen. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-is-the-greatest-wordsmith-in-rock-music/474372/13 "2008-11-25T14:46:57Z")
I think you misspelled ā€˜Warren Zevonā€™. ---
**Author:** ![Bumbershoot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bumbershoot/32/3428_2.png) [@Bumbershoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbershoot)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-is-the-greatest-wordsmith-in-rock-music/474372/14 "2008-11-25T14:47:32Z")
> [@Scissorjack](#): > > Different approach, though: Townsend wrote about what was going on inside; Davies wrote about what was going on outside. > > For pure wordsmitherery, if not emotional impact, Iā€™d go for Elvis Costello, and chuck in Paul Westerberg as a wild card: that guy can _write_. I immediately thought of Paul Westerberg when I saw the thread title. He has a way with words. ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-is-the-greatest-wordsmith-in-rock-music/474372/15 "2008-11-25T15:25:11Z")
I love McCartney and Dylan and all, but for wordcraft integrated with music Iā€™d go with Pink Floyd. _Dark Side Of The Moon_ is their magnum opus lyrically, of course, but they have so many gems elsewhere. One of my favorites is _Learning To Fly_: _Thereā€™s no sensation to compare with this Suspended animation, a state of bliss Canā€™t keep my eyes from the circling skies Tongue-tied and twisted, Just an earth-bound misfit, I_ And what, no love for Paul ā€œRhyminā€™ā€ Simon? \*God only knows; God makes his plan The informationā€™s unavailable to the mortal man We work our jobs, collect our pay Believe weā€™re crusinā€™ down the highway When in fact, weā€™re slip slidinā€™ awayā€¦ You know the nearer your destination, The more youā€™re slip slidinā€™ away\* The Simon & Garfunkel song _America_ sums up the feeling of what it was like living in late 20th Century America to me as much as anything. And his album _Hearts and Bones_ has many songs that are practically poetry in musical form, especially one of my personal faves, _RenĆ© and Georgette Magritte, With Their Dog After The War_. And thatā€™s without even mentioning his best known work such as _The Boxer_, _The Sound of Silence_, _Homeward Bound_. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-is-the-greatest-wordsmith-in-rock-music/474372/16 "2008-11-25T15:52:52Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > Just for starters, see: > > Lola > Celluloid Heroes > (Wish I could Fly Like) Superman > Art Lover > A Little Bit of Abuse > Low Budget > Give the People What They Want > > He may not be the greatest songwriter in pop music (although heā€™s definitely in the conversation,) but no one has made a career of turning a phrase like him. [See here for lyrics.](http://kinks.it.rit.edu/discography/showsong.php) And, although I like Ray Davies better than any of the other songwriters listed here, I think his strength isnā€™t so much in ā€œturning a phraseā€ but in writing a whole song that hangs together, creates a character, sets a scene, tells a story. ---
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-is-the-greatest-wordsmith-in-rock-music/474372/17 "2008-11-25T16:09:13Z")
I donā€™t have much exposure to Ray Davies, but Bruce Springsteen is the best rock lyricist Iā€™ve ever heard, for much the same reasons **Thudlow Boink** gives. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-is-the-greatest-wordsmith-in-rock-music/474372/18 "2008-11-25T16:16:41Z")
Steve Kilbey of the Church would be my choice, tho like his band heā€™s well past his peak now. His lyrics tended to be rather stream-of-consciousness, chock full of imagery, and he liked to invert cliches (disclaimer: as always the music is a vital component, as Steve himself has said on several occasions): **Shadow Cabinet** Now chased by the shapes of your vows Look at the things she allows Junction fever must have closed down the rail The gluttinous wind keeps on lifting the sail Killiing in the ruins in the wake of the gale itā€™s Harmony I say Hear the difference between close and near The way oaths and oafs interfere Bliss comes first as a jangling flood Pillow from the old country arrives with a thud That night she drinks ceremony and mud itā€™s Happening I say Must be thirsty, drink, drink, sink, forget Must be empty inside the shadow cabinet She offered her chaos to me Proffered herself languidly The eldritch bitch must have muddled her spells Tinges of Persia, I hope that it sells Chemical nuptials and ringing the bells Itā€™s heavenly I say Then one winter morning you walk through the trees But they cut them all down for the factories Made this pretty cabinet and gave you the keys Itā€™s hardly used I think * * * The third stanza in particular is exemplary stuff. On a Church board I used to frequent this song was the most often used source of sigs. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-is-the-greatest-wordsmith-in-rock-music/474372/19 "2008-11-25T16:24:57Z")
thatā€™s good stuff,\*\* John DiFool\*\* ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-is-the-greatest-wordsmith-in-rock-music/474372/20 "2008-11-25T16:27:47Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > The OP wasnā€™t about who the better band was (pun unintended.) I did start a thread awhile back about The Who vs. Zeppelin. In this case Iā€™m talking pure lyrics. Iā€™m not sure I understand the distinction. We know their lyrics via their bands (excepting, of course, any solo work). Iā€™m not comparing drummers or anything, though Daltrey certainly delivered the ā€œYEAAAAAAAH!ā€ at the beginning of _Wonā€™t Get Fooled Again._ Like I said, I never followed the Kinks. They had a lot of success but for whatever reason, they didnā€™t appeal to me as much. [hijack]Meanwhile, the greatest number of CDs on my shelf (17, I think) by any artist: Joe Jackson. If you ā€œnever heard of him,ā€ his biggest hit was _Steppinā€™ Out_ ![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/gnbj0w8iOeM/maxresdefault.jpg)https://www.youtube.com/embed/gnbj0w8iOeM?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque Possibly my favorite: _Itā€™s Different for Girls_ ![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/fKr2n-9p7WM/maxresdefault.jpg)https://www.youtube.com/embed/fKr2n-9p7WM?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque _Iā€™m the Man_ [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/uOHVb73eee8/hqdefault.jpg "I'm The Man Joe Jackson Live") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOHVb73eee8) _Friday_ [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/pfArO24gSNw/hqdefault.jpg "Joe Jackson - Friday (live 1980)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfArO24gSNw) Donā€™t get me startedā€¦ [/hijack] [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-davies-is-the-greatest-wordsmith-in-rock-music/474372.md?page=2)