# Ray Rice goes Tubthumping. **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 23, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126 "2014-05-23T21:03:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/201 "2014-09-09T19:32:57Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > I think it’s a dangerous precedent because lacking incriminating video wives of NFL player are now more likely to keep quiet than to report the crime. What? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/202 "2014-09-09T19:33:52Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > I think it’s a dangerous precedent because lacking incriminating video wives of NFL player are now more likely to keep quiet than to report the crime. Really? You might as well say we shouldn’t prosecute any domestic abuser then. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/203 "2014-09-09T19:35:44Z")
You’d think people would have realized he hit her when they saw the first video of him dragging her out of the elevator several months ago. How did she get in that condition? Perhaps a fist to the jaw? It’s not hard to figure out from the video released months ago. Now months later the whole thing erupts all over again because we see the punch. Something we already knew happened from the first video. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/204 "2014-09-09T19:36:56Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’ve never been in or very close to an ongoing abusive relationship (that I know of), but I think it’s fair to describe any relationship that includes even occasional physical violence is an “abusive relationship”. That’s fine with me. The question is if these types of abusive relationships are the ones being described in your cited sources. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/205 "2014-09-09T19:39:41Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > You’d think people would have realized he hit her when they saw the first video of him dragging her out of the elevator several months ago. How did she get in that condition? Perhaps a fist to the jaw? It’s not hard to figure out from the video released months ago. > > Now months later the whole thing erupts all over again because we see the punch. Something we already knew happened from the first video. We shouldn’t really be surprised that video of a brutal event causes a greater emotional reaction than hearing about it (and watching video of the aftermath). ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/206 "2014-09-09T19:43:45Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > We shouldn’t really be surprised that video of a brutal event causes a greater emotional reaction than hearing about it (and watching video of the aftermath). Yeah, language can be precise, but often isn’t. And it generally is unable to convey the entire experience of seeing something. I don’t follow the NFL, though I do follow MLB. Do people think this sort of incident would have gotten a different bigwig reaction in other sports? I see a lot of vitriol thrown at the NFL and from my perspective it’s deserved, but would the NBA or MLB or MLS or the NHL handle it differently or better? (I’m not sure if there is enough information to judge that. I’m just curious.) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/207 "2014-09-09T19:48:54Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I don’t follow the NFL, though I do follow MLB. Do people think this sort of incident would have gotten a different bigwig reaction in other sports? I see a lot of vitriol thrown at the NFL and from my perspective it’s deserved, but would the NBA or MLB or MLS or the NHL handle it differently or better? (I’m not sure if there is enough information to judge that. I’m just curious.) IMHO (and I say this as an NFL fan who mostly wishes baseball and hockey would disappear and leave more room for more football), the NFL gets kid glove treatment from the media. Drug scandals that rock baseball barely merit a footnote when football players also turn out to be involved. The NFL is basically where baseball was 15 years ago before the PED hammer came down; everyone knows the players are juicing, and everyone knows the PED policy is a joke. For whatever reason, nobody gives a shit. I assume it’s because the NFL is now the gorilla in the room and media outlets are afraid to jeopardize their chances of bidding for Wednesday Night Football or whatever the next broadcast expansion will be. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/208 "2014-09-09T19:49:24Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Really? You might as well say we shouldn’t prosecute any domestic abuser then. I don’t see how you get that from what i said. That poor girl who got punched just lost millions of dollars on top of being abused, how could that not affect the decision of the next NFL wife who gets knocked out by her husband? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/209 "2014-09-09T19:53:02Z")
If I was convicted of spousal battery, I might also be fired, placing our finances in jeopardy. Ergo, my wife should not report me if I beat her. ---
**Author:** ![tullsterx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tullsterx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tullsterx)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/210 "2014-09-09T19:53:54Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > You’d think people would have realized he hit her when they saw the first video of him dragging her out of the elevator several months ago. How did she get in that condition? Perhaps a fist to the jaw? It’s not hard to figure out from the video released months ago. > > Now months later the whole thing erupts all over again because we see the punch. Something we already knew happened from the first video. Exactly. Has the whole world gone completely nuts?! What do people think a knock-out looks like! You didn’t see Buster Douglas knock out Mike Tyson? And we knew all of this many months ago! It’s crazy. I think the renewed outrage over the video is almost entirely media-driven. This new portion of the video is not news, a proper response would be to say “well, yeah, we already knew that.” ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/211 "2014-09-09T19:54:51Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > I don’t see how you get that from what i said. That poor girl who got punched just lost millions of dollars on top of being abused, how could that not affect the decision of the next NFL wife who gets knocked out by her husband? I could see that affecting her decision. Many abused persons have lots of reasons for their decisions. But it seemed you were tying that to whether there was a video, and that’s the connection I don’t get. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/212 "2014-09-09T19:55:27Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > There seem to be a kind of “No True Scotsman” aspect to those cites, in that they define abusive relationships as these domineering and violent relationships and try to depict the dynamic based on that premised definition. I’m not sure if these people would claim that every relationship that includes occaisional physical violence is what they refer to as an “abusive relationship”. Generally speaking, they would not, if I can correctly predict precisely what you mean by that. In practice it is hard to imagine how you could have one person “occasionally” inflicting violence on another person without that relationship being abusive. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/213 "2014-09-09T19:55:35Z")
Kicking Ray Rice off the team just makes the situation at home more dangerous for his wife. Unemployed, broke, depressed who do you think he’ll take his frustration out on? The original penalty was meant to reprimand Rice and change how he treated his wife. His coaches had been counseling him. The hope was he’d grow up and not make the same mistake again. She claims the relationship was improving. She even went ahead with the marriage after this incident. Now they are both SOL. No money. No job. It’s a dangerous situation for her. Especially if he starts drinking. She needs to get out of that house quick. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/214 "2014-09-09T19:59:18Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I could see that affecting her decision. Many abused persons have lots of reasons for their decisions. > > But it seemed you were tying that to whether there was a video, and that’s the connection I don’t get. I mean if next time there isn’t a video then the victim won’t speak up. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/215 "2014-09-09T20:00:17Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Kicking Ray Rice off the team just makes the situation at home more dangerous for his wife. Unemployed, broke, depressed who do you think he’ll take his frustration out on? Are you hiring? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/216 "2014-09-09T20:01:22Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The original penalty was meant to reprimand Rice and change how he treated his wife. No it wasn’t. It was meant to protect the NFL. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/217 "2014-09-09T20:02:05Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > I mean if next time there isn’t a video then the victim won’t speak up. Okay, but why? How has the existence of this video changed what happens when there is no video? I’m not saying it can’t. I’m just not following the argument. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/218 "2014-09-09T20:05:01Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Kicking Ray Rice off the team just makes the situation at home more dangerous for his wife. Unemployed, broke, depressed who do you think he’ll take his frustration out on? This is the same thing as when you take action against any abuser, such as arresting them or firing them or having a restraining order against them, etc. It seems to be an argument against taking any action at all. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/219 "2014-09-09T20:11:50Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Okay, but why? How has the existence of this video changed what happens when there is no video? I’m not saying it can’t. I’m just not following the argument. No video + victim unwilling to speak up because it will cost them millions of dollars = we never find out about the next abuser. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/220 "2014-09-09T20:12:06Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Kicking Ray Rice off the team just makes the situation at home more dangerous for his wife. Unemployed, broke, depressed who do you think he’ll take his frustration out on? This, unlike every other thing you’ve said here, is a valid point. And it sucks. The best you can say is that it should’ve happened before and that nobody here had a real choice. > [@](#): > > The original penalty was meant to reprimand Rice and change how he treated his wife. Bullshit. It was meant to ameliorate public anger toward Rice, and so is the second penalty. > [@](#): > > Now they are both SOL. No money. No job. He’s been in the NFL for six years and presumably has some money. But that’s it for his income, yes. > [@](#): > > It’s a dangerous situation for her. Especially if he starts drinking. She needs to get out of that house quick. Probably true. And yes, people seem to be making arguments for doing nothing. > [@DigitalC](#): > > No video + victim unwilling to speak up because it will cost them millions of dollars = we never find out about the next abuser. What you ought to realize is that we already don’t find out about a lot of abusers. Look at how much it took for us to find out about this case and for anybody to take action - and Ray Rice didn’t even go to trial. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126.md?page=12)