# Ray Rice goes Tubthumping. **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 23, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126 "2014-05-23T21:03:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/221 "2014-09-09T20:17:00Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > No video + victim unwilling to speak up because it will cost them millions of dollars = we never find out about the next abuser. But we already weren’t finding out about abusers without things like this video. And without the video, there likely wouldn’t have been the reaction. So your assumption seems to be that the NFL would take the same stance in the absence of a video. ---
**Author:** ![JesterX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JesterX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JesterX)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/222 "2014-09-09T20:21:44Z")
For all those who don’t get how the new video sheds more light on the altercation between Ray Rice and his then-fiancé. Remember, the implication was that his fiancé greatly contributed to the altercation. Both of them gave the impression that it was mutual. This video pretty much shows that Janay Rice really didn’t do anything. That is a huge difference and warrants a greater response from the Ravens, the NFL AND the public. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/223 "2014-09-09T20:22:22Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > This is the same thing as when you take action against any abuser, such as arresting them or firing them or having a restraining order against them, etc. It seems to be an argument against taking any action at all. No, but there is a point where if the punishment is harsh enough it becomes more a deterrent for the victim to speak up than for the abuser to commit the crime. It doesn’t mean you shouldn’t punish the abuser, but you should keep in mind that any financial punishment is going to hit the victim just as bad. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/224 "2014-09-09T20:30:17Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > No, but there is a point where if the punishment is harsh enough it becomes more a deterrent for the victim to speak up than for the abuser to commit the crime. It doesn’t mean you shouldn’t punish the abuser, but you should keep in mind that any financial punishment is going to hit the victim just as bad. Okay, so now I’m keeping that in mind. Now what? ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/225 "2014-09-09T20:34:21Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I think it’s a dangerous precedent for the NFL or any employer to start snooping and playing God. If someone beats up their wife it’s a criminal matter. Let a court decide if the person is guilty and assign an appropriate punishment. To fire somebody before they’ve even had an opportunity to have a court hear the case is a bad idea. :smack: The facts do not match up to your post in any way. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/226 "2014-09-09T20:35:30Z")
Now don’t take away a 35 million contract when a few games suspension would’ve been enough? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/227 "2014-09-09T20:36:39Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > IMHO (and I say this as an NFL fan who mostly wishes baseball and hockey would disappear and leave more room for more football), the NFL gets kid glove treatment from the media. > > Drug scandals that rock baseball barely merit a footnote when football players also turn out to be involved. The NFL is basically where baseball was 15 years ago before the PED hammer came down; everyone knows the players are juicing, and everyone knows the PED policy is a joke. For whatever reason, nobody gives a shit. > > I assume it’s because the NFL is now the gorilla in the room and media outlets are afraid to jeopardize their chances of bidding for Wednesday Night Football or whatever the next broadcast expansion will be. I agree. I think that one of the most interesting things to watch as this situation develops will be whether the NFL has actually screwed up this media relationship. There are, right now on ESPN, at least three or four very angry reporters, people who wrote months ago (based on NFL sources) that the NFL had seen the elevator video and taken the video into consideration in assessing the two-week penalty on Ray Rice. In one of those stories, the NFL source described the video, and what was described is pretty close to what we see on the video, including the fact that Janay hit the handrail on the way down after Ray punched her. And yet now, the NFL is denying that it had ever seen the elevator video, and those ESPN reporters are feeling like they’ve either been lied to by their NFL sources, or hung out to dry by the league. They are hopping mad. And these ESPN reporters are, for the most part, people who’ve made their living basically acting as little more than PR flacks for the NFL. The blow-job that ESPN gives to the NFL on a daily basis is pathetic to watch, and most people on the network seem happy to see themselves as part of the league’s marketing arm. The fact that these, of all people, are now angry at the NFL is, in itself, an interesting development. It would be nice if they were angry that the NFL covered up a beating, rather than being angry because the NFL lied to reporters, but i’ll take what i can get. > [@tullsterx](#): > > Exactly. Has the whole world gone completely nuts?! What do people think a knock-out looks like! You didn’t see Buster Douglas knock out Mike Tyson? And we knew all of this many months ago! It’s crazy. I think the renewed outrage over the video is almost entirely media-driven. This new portion of the video is not news, a proper response would be to say “well, yeah, we already knew that.” I would like to note that i started this thread well before the new video became available. I agree that the new video doesn’t really tell me anything i didn’t already know (or at least suspect), and i believed when we first saw the original footage of Rice dragging his unconscious fiance around that he should face a very long suspension, or worse. Also, as others have pointed out, the video clearly refutes the idea that Janay was a major contributor to the violence that occurred that night. > [@aceplace57](#): > > Kicking Ray Rice off the team just makes the situation at home more dangerous for his wife. Unemployed, broke, depressed who do you think he’ll take his frustration out on? Broke? If Rice never works another day in his life, he has already earned about as much (in pre-tax income) as the median American household would earn in 450 years of work, at current median income levels (about $55,000 per year). According to [this story](http://www.spotrac.com/blog/financial-impact-of-the-ray-rice-situation/), he has already been paid about $25 million of his $35 million contract. Now i’m not an expert on NFL contracts, so someone can tell me if i’m wrong, but [this CNN story](http://money.cnn.com/2014/09/08/news/companies/ray-rice-contract/index.html) suggests that the team would have a hard time trying to recoup any of Rice’s already-paid salary or signing bonus. Even Aaron Hernandez, currently on trial for murder, apparently got to keep his signing bonus. Even if they got to recoup a pro-rated amount of his signing bonus (as happened with Michael Vick) for the three years left on his contract, that would still leave him with over $15 million, and that’s without factoring in the money any sponsorship or endorsement deals might have paid him over the past few years. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/228 "2014-09-09T20:37:21Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Now don’t take away a 35 million contract when a few games suspension would’ve been enough? “Enough?” ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/229 "2014-09-09T20:39:39Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > “Enough?” Enough to discourage further beatings, not enough for a battered wife of a player to think “holy fuck, i better keep my mouth shut”. Not sure what part of this conversation you are having trouble understanding. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/230 "2014-09-09T20:40:41Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Enough to discourage further beatings, not enough for a battered wife of a player to think “holy fuck, i better keep my mouth shut”. Not sure what part of this conversation you are having trouble understanding. I’m confused by your expertise in knowing what will discourage this guy from beating his wife further. You’ve apparently figured out the punishment in a very precise way. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/231 "2014-09-09T20:41:35Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > His coaches had been counseling him. The coaches. Oh, yeah, the COACHES. Don’t worry folks, the coaches got this one. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/232 "2014-09-09T20:42:21Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Not sure what part of this conversation you are having trouble understanding. Just about everything that you’re saying, unfortunately. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/233 "2014-09-09T20:42:56Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Enough to discourage further beatings, not enough for a battered wife of a player to think “holy fuck, i better keep my mouth shut”. Not sure what part of this conversation you are having trouble understanding. Actually, I had the same question. “Enough” is going to be pretty subjective. To me “enough” would be if he were in jail. How much money would he make in jail? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/234 "2014-09-09T20:51:24Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Actually, I had the same question. “Enough” is going to be pretty subjective. To me “enough” would be if he were in jail. How much money would he make in jail? Well I’m pretty sure the NFL can’t throw him in jail. It might even have gone better for him if he had gotten tossed in jail for a few months, then the NFL wouldn’t feel pressured to hand out any extra punishment. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/235 "2014-09-09T20:56:07Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > It might even have gone better for him if he had gotten tossed in jail for a few months, then the NFL wouldn’t feel pressured to hand out any extra punishment. I was going to say the NFL would have suspended him anyway because they did suspend Michael Vick after he got out of jail, but I’ll skip it - the NFL botched this so badly that maybe they would have let him right back on the field. It is a separate travesty that he was not prosecuted. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/236 "2014-09-09T21:04:47Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Why would an employer have any right to fire an employee unless they were convicted of a crime? I agree! Once you hire someone, you are forced by Big Government to continue to employ them in perpetuity. Why, this is downright Socialist sounding of you, **aceplace**. . . maybe there’s hope for you yet! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/237 "2014-09-09T21:12:08Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It is a separate travesty that he was not prosecuted. That’s what i was thinking, there was a lot more outrage because he was not prosecuted than there would have been if he was. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/238 "2014-09-09T21:30:57Z")
> [@JesterX](#): > > For all those who don’t get how the new video sheds more light on the altercation between Ray Rice and his then-fiancé. Remember, the implication was that his fiancé greatly contributed to the altercation. Both of them gave the impression that it was mutual. This video pretty much shows that Janay Rice really didn’t do anything. In the one I’ve seen, there is something that happens before the first blow; unclear but it looks like maybe she’s elbowing him away. Then he hits her, and he backs away. She then moves toward him, and that’s when he clobbers her. That doesn’t add up to “he was acting in self-defense,” but neither is it a case of her sitting there peacefully minding her own when he clocks her, nor did she back away against the wall after the first blow. I think most people, certainly most women, in that situation would stay against the wall and wait desperately for the door to open. It’s a deathknell for anyone who assumed she must have hit him first or something, but to me, it looks like a typical abusive relationship pattern: two people meeting aggression with aggression, escalation meeting escalation, ending in violence. ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/239 "2014-09-09T22:03:19Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It is a separate travesty that he was not prosecuted. The prosecution is the only group that treated this with any sanity. Ray Rice is a millionaire but what if it was the sole breadwinner of a family living paycheck to paycheck. In these situations you can’t avoid punishing the whole family, including the person who was abused. The best case scenario is to steer the couple into therapy and anger management classes. Adding felonies to people records and making them practically unemployable doesn’t help anybody. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/240 "2014-09-09T22:12:50Z")
> [@sitchensis](#): > > The prosecution is the only group that treated this with any sanity. Ray Rice is a millionaire but what if it was the sole breadwinner of a family living paycheck to paycheck. In these situations you can’t avoid punishing the whole family, including the person who was abused. The best case scenario is to steer the couple into therapy and anger management classes. Adding felonies to people records and making them practically unemployable doesn’t help anybody. By this logic, no poor person with a family should ever be convicted of a crime. Neither should any middle-class man or woman whose income is the sole support for a family. Nor should any wealthy person whose income is a family’s sole means of support. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126.md?page=13)