# Ray Rice goes Tubthumping. **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 23, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126 "2014-05-23T21:03:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/241 "2014-09-09T22:20:46Z")
> [@sitchensis](#): > > The prosecution is the only group that treated this with any sanity. Your definition of sanity sounds crazy. People in this thread are talking about the message battered women will get from the fact that Ray Rice lost his job. What message will they get from the fact that a football player (i.e. very strong guy) was caught on video knocking his wife unconscious, the whole country found out about it, and he didn’t even do jail time? Doesn’t that send a message like “the system doesn’t care about you” - a message they’re probably already getting at home? I think that’s _already_ the message a lot of women get. I agree that Janay Rice’s situation sucks no matter what - whether Ray Rice kept his job after a pathetically weak NFL/Ravens response, lost his job, and whether this was resolved in private or in an extremely public way. > [@](#): > > The best case scenario is to steer the couple into therapy and anger management classes. When that’s appropriate, which is not always the case. > [@](#): > > Adding felonies to people records and making them practically unemployable doesn’t help anybody. If it keeps a woman from dying I think it helps somebody. ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/242 "2014-09-09T22:41:54Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > By this logic, no poor person with a family should ever be convicted of a crime. Neither should any middle-class man or woman whose income is the sole support for a family. Nor should any wealthy person whose income is a family’s sole means of support. This is the logic that gives us a real court of law and not a kangaroo court based on recreational outrage, 30 second video clips, and celebrity retweets. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/243 "2014-09-09T22:59:14Z")
A driving range in the Maryland suburbs of DC has announced a [promotion](http://www.olneygolfpark.com/): trash to cash. Trade in a Ray Rice jersey and you get a bucket of golf balls. Awesome. The idea that companies in the entertainment business are doing something wrong when incontrovertible evidence of a serious crime – and also the perpetrator’s callous disregard for an unconscious human being – comes to light is just fucking mind-boggling. The only shame here is that he wasn’t fired earlier. It is absolutely sickening to me for folks to imply that a business ought to be incapable of judging whether someone’s behavior meets with the ethical standards that the company can expect of its employees, especially when the employee is a public figure. Rule of thumb here: you don’t have the right to act like a grade-A asshole and expect that nobody else in the world can react to your atrocious behavior unless a judge pronounces you guilty of something. This goes for Tom Cruise being dropped by his movie studio for acting like a freak about Scientology, it goes for Ray Rice being videotaped beating the living crap out of a 120-pound woman, and it should have applied to Rob Ford for smoking crack. If you are going to be an asshole, expect to be treated like an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/244 "2014-09-09T23:00:26Z")
> [@sitchensis](#): > > This is the logic that gives us a real court of law and not a kangaroo court based on recreational outrage, 30 second video clips, and celebrity retweets. Explain to me, then, how your argument works. You seem to believe that the need to provide for a family should confer a more lenient punishment under the judicial system. How far would you take this principle? Would local drug dealers and stick-up artists get a pass in your “Don’t punish the whole family” policy? What about someone who drives drunk and kills a pedestrian? What about the guy who broke into your house and stole your TV and camera? I’m open to the idea that a person’s relative wealth might shape how the criminal justice system evaluates and punishes crime, especially given that so many people who commit crimes do so out of economic desperation. I’m just not sure that someone who has _already_ earned an 8-figure income is quite the right place to launch such a policy, especially when his crime is one of violence rather than of economic necessity. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/245 "2014-09-10T00:30:05Z")
This is news to me. It doesn’t excuse what Rice did. But I can more easily understand why the prosecution decided on cutting a deal. Anyone would have trouble keeping their composure when someone spits in their face. I’d like to think that I’d count to ten and not react. But in the heat of the moment it’s hard to say what I’d do. ABC nightly news did a nice piece on this tonight. Explaining the case and Janay’s comments about her husband’s suspension. I hope he does eventually get to play again. I for one am fed up with the mob mentality that demands the head of anyone that does or says anything that displeases them. I understand the NFL has to appease their fans. Suspend the guy for a season or two. But he should be given a chance to play again. > **[‘I have to be there for (Janay) and my family right now’: Ray Rice on...](https://www.nydailynews.com/2014/09/09/i-have-to-be-there-for-janay-and-my-family-right-now-ray-rice-on-domestic-violence-video-aftermath/)** > > She’s standing by the man who punched her lights out. He’s standing by the woman who spat in his face. Ray Rice and his wife, Janay, spoke out Tuesday, a day after he was fired by the B… > [@](#): > > Meanwhile, The Associated Press said its reporters saw a longer version of the tell-tale footage of the Feb. 15 assault in an elevator of the newly shuttered Revel Casino Hotel. > > The higher-quality footage, which includes audio of the couple screaming curses at each other, also showed Janay spitting in Rice’s face before he delivered the knockout punch, the AP reported. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/246 "2014-09-10T00:31:51Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > This is news to me. Obviously. You should really read up about this case before opining. It is staggering how much you’ve gotten wrong to this point. > [@](#): > > I for one am fed up with the mob mentality that demands the head of anyone that does or says anything that displeases them. Like beating the shit out of a woman. So unfair of the mob. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/247 "2014-09-10T00:41:44Z")
It was one punch Marley. After she spit in his face. It’s easy to say, he should have just taken it in stride. Shrugged it off. But in the heat of the moment people don’t always think clearly. Should a decision made in a split second ruin this guy’s life? Especially when even the prosecutor is saying the deal they made is common for first time offenders. I’m not arguing that the guy didn’t deserve prosecution or even a NFL suspension. But to ban the guy from ever playing again? Thats extreme. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/248 "2014-09-10T00:50:41Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It was one punch Marley. You’re wrong again! I don’t understand why you won’t read the elementary facts of this case before you spout off and defend this guy. But even if you were right, you’d be wrong: this is a truly vile and disgusting thing to say. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveroptic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiveroptic/32/8257_2.png) [@Fiveroptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveroptic)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/249 "2014-09-10T00:52:45Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I for one am fed up with the mob mentality that demands the head of anyone that does or says anything that displeases them. Am I reading this correctly? I can’t believe you seriously just said that. I can’t wait til this thread goes to the pit. ETA: > [@](#): > > It was one punch Marley Oh. My. God. Unreal. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/250 "2014-09-10T01:06:31Z")
I watched the video yesterday. One punch. The spitting wasn’t apparent in the grainy video. But the AP claims they saw it in a better copy. Compare that to Chris Brown who is still making records and performing concerts. After nearly beating Rihanna half to death. I won’t link to that sickening photo of her face. I abhor violence against women. But feel strongly its the judicial systems job to deal with it. The prosecutor made a decision to cut a deal. Rice has been punished under our system. Maybe he did deserve more punishment. That was up to the prosecutor. Fire him if you think he’s soft on crime. > [@Marley23](#): > > You’re wrong again! I don’t understand why you won’t read the elementary facts of this case before you spout off and defend this guy. But even if you were right, you’d be wrong: this is a truly vile and disgusting thing to say. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/251 "2014-09-10T01:08:26Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Maybe he should be in jail, maybe not. That’s a broader debate. Whatever that result it has nothing at all to do with the NFL. The US has the highest incarceration rate in the world and we lock people up out of pure reflex. This isn’t a successful strategy. In my view prison should be primarily used to separate dangerous people from the rest of society. Ummmm… What? So Rice shouldn’t go to jail because they are full? > [@Omniscient](#): > > It’s a complex issue and there is a use for it as a deterrent and punitive measure that can be decided on a case-by-case basis. Agreed. That’s why a trial on this case would have been appropriate. IMO, there is enough in that video to warrant a trial. My opinion here doesn’t count, because he is not standing trial. > [@Omniscient](#): > > But, for me, it seems very unlikely that Ray Rice is a threat to start punching random people and that this was a loaded, emotional situation. He might punch his wife again and they need to find a way to prevent that, but jail is a heavy handed, socially expensive mechanism for that. The only obvious benefit from locking him up is silencing those in the mob screaming for his head and that’s a shitty reason. And for me, it is just the opposite. If Ray Rice can treat someone he supposedly loves like that, what do you think he might do to you if you rear-ended him in a parking lot? I don’t see someone in that video with a restraint switch. He just goes off instantly. And he shows no remorse. You don’t have to tell me how you don’t see that. Clearly, you are seeing something totally different than I am. I agree that the mob shouldn’t dictate punishment, but in this case, it didn’t. He isn’t going to jail. Yes, he is being punished by being booted from the NFL, but that is something he should have understood as a possibility long before he took that swing. > [@Omniscient](#): > > Did I ever say anything like that? You implied it. To wit: > [@](#): > > The more troubling fact is that this is a private issue that the public is weighing in on. They have no idea what the relationship dynamics are. These people need therapy, separate or apart, not jail and they certainly don’t need judgment from the peanut gallery. I took it to an extreme to make a point. You stated that this was a “private matter”. It’s not. The “State” has a right - and more importantly an obligation - to investigate crimes committed within its jurisdiction. Those laws are on the books for the greater good of the community. You talk about “relationship dynamics” as if they matter. They don’t. If Ray Rice committed a crime, he should be punished for that crime. As to the public weighing in on it, of course they are. Remember the Rodney King video? Did the public weigh in on that? Of course. Because the public weighs in doesn’t invalidate the facts. IMO, Rice deserved to be arrested and stand trial. You disagree. So did the DA. Rice will not stand trial, so no matter what I (or the public) think, he is free. > [@Omniscient](#): > > This is 100% not true. In fact, that he’s a public figure probably increases the likelihood of prosecution by several orders of magnitude. People get punched hundreds of thousands of times a day in this country. You think so? 100% not true? So, you think that every famous person who runs against the law pays the price? What world are you living in, anyway? Yes, a number of people in these high profile cases get publicly flogged, but there are countless times where someone gets a break because of who they are. An example of this is right in front of you. If that video never became public, Ray Rice is a perfect example of someone getting a break because of who he is. He is a star running back, a super bowl champion and a very recognizable name. Do you honestly think the NFL didn’t give him a break in giving him two games as punishment at the outset? And beyond that, the inexplicable pass on viewing the footage of inside the elevator? If they were interested in doing a proper, thorough investigation, they would have asked for that tape. Boy, they screwed the pooch on that one. > [@Omniscient](#): > > Dude, you have some serious issues with sports. You’re bringing a lot of baggage to this debate. I don’t even know what this means. I have no baggage and no issues with sports. I love sports. My only issue is with how Ray Rice decked his fiancee, how the DA didn’t think a trial was necessary, and how the Ravens and the NFL handled the investigation. It goes no further than that, despite what you think. > [@Omniscient](#): > > You seem to think the debate is about spitting…it’s not. This is what you got from my post? Wow. How sad. And myopic. > [@mhendo](#): > > Have you actually seen the video? > > Can you give this schtick a fucking rest, please? > > Yes, some Ravens fans are probably still supporting Rice and/or the Ravens and/or the league, but as far as i can tell, both from this message board and from the much broader national discussion, where people come down on this issue is not, for the most part, determined by what football team they support. I would be happy to give it a rest. But it is interesting to note that he refused to answer the question. And let’s be honest. Many folks see their team and their players in a much different light than anyone else. They have their emotions invested in them. I don’t care about Ray Rice at all, and his being suspended indefinitely doesn’t bother me one way or the other. But a Ravens fan might know that Rice was one of the better backs in the league, and that the Ravens chances to win it all have been seriously damaged by losing their number one back. But I won’t ask him again. Honestly, I was hoping he was a Ravens fan because it might have helped me understand his POV a bit better. But it doesn’t change mine. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/252 "2014-09-10T01:20:25Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I watched the video yesterday. One punch. Every detailed description I have read of the video - I haven’t and won’t watch it - makes it clear he struck her more than once. [Here’s an example.](http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/ray-rice-cut-ravens-video-elevator-punch/story?id=25347953) Maybe only one is a “punch,” but that’s semantics. > [@](#): > > Compare that to Chris Brown who is still making records and performing concerts. After nearly beating Rihanna half to death. I won’t link to that sickening photo of her face. And Chris Brown has been to jail multiple times and many people find him totally horrible and won’t buy his music. Some people still support him and that’s crazy, but I can’t do anything about that. > [@](#): > > But feel strongly its the judicial systems job to deal with it. I don’t think you understand the systems at work here - and again, that would be consistent with your numerous misstatements about the whole situation. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/253 "2014-09-10T01:38:58Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I abhor violence against women. You just abhor a domestic abuser losing his job more. We get it. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/254 "2014-09-10T01:39:35Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > But it is interesting to note that he refused to answer the question. It’s interesting if you actually believe that a person’s response to this issue need be shaped by his team loyalties. > [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > And let’s be honest. Many folks see their team and their players in a much different light than anyone else. They have their emotions invested in them. Some might, but i don’t think that our first assumption in a discussion of something as serious as assault is that a person is willing to forego his morals and ignore the law just to see his team win. Anyway, for all that it matters, i believe that **Omniscient** is a Bears supporter. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/255 "2014-09-10T01:42:29Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > You just abhor a domestic abuser losing his job more. We get it. And that’s how it goes in discussions like these. Very few people will say beating a woman or discriminating against people based on race or sex or whatever is OK. They’ll just allow lots of excuses and mitigating circumstances, downplay it, and make it clear they don’t want to do much of anything about it even in really blatant cases. If you think almost nothing should be done about something you “abhor,” what’s your moral judgment even worth? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/256 "2014-09-10T02:49:08Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > My comments were about the reaction to her acknowledgement that she had a part in the incident. And the point you seem to be missing is that she didn’t really apologize for anything. She gave a blanket apology with no specifics whatsoever. She apologized for anything she might have done. That doesn’t come off as a genuine apology, but one of those face saving ones. Or, in this case, one that is being forced out of you. Did any of her actions contribute to what happened? Of course, but you can say that about pretty much anything. The question is whether her actions were something to apologize for, and her leack of a specific apology make it seem like she doesn’t think so, yet she gave an apology anyways. It comes off as an apology to appease, not a genuine one. And, if you know anything about abused spouses, you know that a lot of times the abused person apologizes despite it not being their fault at all. They may even believe it is their fault, even if they don’t know what what they did wrong–because they believe it has to be partly their fault, not the abusers. And that is something quite a lot of us find disgusting. Even her more recent comment comes off more like how an abused woman acts, rather than some repudiation that things weren’t as bad as they seemed. She comes off as the classic abuse victim who loves their abuser, and thus will blame anyone but the abuser for her unhappiness. You seem to want to evaluate the situation in isolation, and this is leading to your not understanding other people’s point of view on the matter. And I know you actually say you didn’t understand, but you sure jumped to a different (and more unfavorable) conclusion. I do not find her apology troubling because I think she had absolutely no blame in the situation. I find it troubling because it overplays her own blame, and underplays his. And I find it troubling because it fits the pattern of the abused woman blaming herself more than she should (whether because she’s really at fault or because she feels she needs to appease her abuser). ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/257 "2014-09-10T02:57:23Z")
Correction to last paragraph made after the time limit: I do not find her apology troubling because I think she had absolutely no blame in the situation, **seeing it only in black and white terms.** I find it troubling because it overplays her own blame, and underplays his. And I find it troubling because it fits the pattern of the abused woman blaming herself more than she should (whether because **she believes** she’s really at fault or because she feels she needs to appease her abuser, **or both** ). ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/258 "2014-09-10T03:06:06Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > You just abhor a domestic abuser losing his job more. We get it. Man, I don’t get it. I really don’t. It must be a reflection on something that’s wrong with me psychologically but I am freaking _fascinated_ by the stuff this guy says. Does he know that nearly every opinion is premised on a very straightforward and major factual error? Does he ever confront this? Is it at all relevant to his life? It’s like one of those robot vacuums; he just bumps into something and turns and goes off in a different direction. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/259 "2014-09-10T03:26:32Z")
I really don’t see what I’ve said that is outrageous. I’m absolutely against violence against women. I feel it’s a criminal act and should be dealt with accordingly. As it was in this case. I don’t feel heated public opinion trumpeted by the press should be the basis for a public trial & condemnation. Ruining someone’s career and destroying their life is a form of punishment. Just as severe as sending them to prison. That shouldn’t be tolerated in this country. My opinions are based on a strong belief in the Justice System. We are a nation governed by laws. I respect the process even when I don’t agree with the outcome of a case. Mob rule even indirectly through public pressure is not acceptable. Sure on an individual basis each person has the right to an opinion. Boycott the NFL if you want. Refuse to watch a Ravens game. It’s a free country and everyone can make their own choices. I personally think Rice should have served a year in jail. That would have cost him a season of football and millions in lost wages. But, I wasn’t the prosecutor and it wasn’t my decision to make. Unfortunately organizations like the NFL are very sensitive to public opinion. They allowed a vocal and outraged group to have their way. This has become the norm in this country. Any outrageous public statement or criminal act can unleash a firestorm in the press and ruin them. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126/260 "2014-09-10T03:31:33Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And, if you know anything about abused spouses, you know that a lot of times the abused person apologizes despite it not being their fault at all. They may even believe it is their fault, even if they don’t know what what they did wrong–because they believe it has to be partly their fault, not the abusers. And that is something quite a lot of us find disgusting. > > Even her more recent comment comes off more like how an abused woman acts, rather than some repudiation that things weren’t as bad as they seemed. She comes off as the classic abuse victim who loves their abuser, and thus will blame anyone but the abuser for her unhappiness. > > You seem to want to evaluate the situation in isolation, and this is leading to your not understanding other people’s point of view on the matter. And I know you actually say you didn’t understand, but you sure jumped to a different (and more unfavorable) conclusion. > > I do not find her apology troubling because I think she had absolutely no blame in the situation. I find it troubling because it overplays her own blame, and underplays his. And I find it troubling because it fits the pattern of the abused woman blaming herself more than she should (whether because she’s really at fault or because she feels she needs to appease her abuser). She wasn’t exactly acting like a battered spouse in the video. She (reportedly) spit on him, slapped him, and was generally belligerent. I think it was pretty clear that she was a full participant in the argument. Of course that doesn’t excuse him hitting her, but they both acted terribly in the video. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ray-rice-goes-tubthumping/689126.md?page=14)