# RCC cardinal says they'll shut down all hospitals if they have to **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 28, 2012, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rcc-cardinal-says-theyll-shut-down-all-hospitals-if-they-have-to/614218 "2012-02-28T03:03:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rcc-cardinal-says-theyll-shut-down-all-hospitals-if-they-have-to/614218/41 "2012-02-28T20:36:28Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > The state can not prevent them from doing that. All it can do is fine the corporation that runs the hospital, after the fact, and take over the corporation’s assets. If everything is there in the corporate accounts, and in the building, that is all the state can do. So your basically saying that they can close if they want to, all that will happen is that they’ll be assessed the legal penalties of doing so? I guess thats true, but its pretty close to tautological. Your initial posts made it sound like you were proposing some sort of loophole by which the Church could close the Hospital without permission and avoid the legal penalities of having done so. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rcc-cardinal-says-theyll-shut-down-all-hospitals-if-they-have-to/614218/42 "2012-02-28T20:40:38Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > “Catholic” Charities get [62% of their budget from the government](http://www.catholiccharitiesusa.org/document.doc?id=2853) (link to PDF file). If they want to be a Catholic organization, and uphold the teachings of the church in all areas, maybe they shouldn’t be getting well over half of their budget from the taxpayers (who include Catholics and non-Catholics alike). WTF!?!?! So they’re being holier than thou with MY FUCKING MONEY?!?!?! I’ve been a fan of catholic charities for a long time but if they are basically government funded then fuck em. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rcc-cardinal-says-theyll-shut-down-all-hospitals-if-they-have-to/614218/43 "2012-02-28T21:02:44Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That was only in Illinois, and local chapters of Catholic Charities have been deciding whether or not to withdraw from providing adoption services on their own. Similar [federal legislation is pending](http://www.washingtonblade.com/2012/02/16/exclusive-connolly-to-co-sponsor-adoption-anti-bias-bill/). It happened in [Massachusetts](http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/012/191kgwgh.asp) in 2006 as well. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rcc-cardinal-says-theyll-shut-down-all-hospitals-if-they-have-to/614218/44 "2012-02-28T21:08:30Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Who Is Jesus Christ? The guy who said “suffer, little children” of course. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rcc-cardinal-says-theyll-shut-down-all-hospitals-if-they-have-to/614218/45 "2012-02-28T21:10:24Z")
They shouldn’t worry, President Santorum will be taking orders directly from the Vatican. After all, it seems that he finds JFK’s speech saying that he wouldn’t be taking orders from the Vatican deeply disturbing. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rcc-cardinal-says-theyll-shut-down-all-hospitals-if-they-have-to/614218/46 "2012-02-28T21:19:52Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > They don’t have to take any money. All they have to do is stop paying people, lock the doors, and leave everything there. The state can not prevent them from doing that. All it can do is fine the corporation that runs the hospital, after the fact, and take over the corporation’s assets. If everything is there in the corporate accounts, and in the building, that is all the state can do. I’m starting to think you’re being dense on purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rcc-cardinal-says-theyll-shut-down-all-hospitals-if-they-have-to/614218/47 "2012-02-28T21:23:46Z")
> [@erislover](#): > > What is with the hostage tactic so popular recently? Because it works so fucking well with the Obama administration. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rcc-cardinal-says-theyll-shut-down-all-hospitals-if-they-have-to/614218/48 "2012-02-28T21:30:24Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > It happened in [Massachusetts](http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/012/191kgwgh.asp) in 2006 as well. And you know how anti-Catholic Massachusetts is! ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rcc-cardinal-says-theyll-shut-down-all-hospitals-if-they-have-to/614218/49 "2012-02-28T21:44:40Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > If you want to get out of the hospital business, you sell the hospital to someone else, take the proceeds and apply them to non hospital activities. Or, you can take assets worth billions of dollars and flush them down the proverbial toilet, while endangering the lives of thousands of hospital patients. All to make a point about birth control. > > While they could theoretically do just that, they’re not going to. Asserting that doesn’t make it so. Do you have any evidence that they won’t? > [@Lobohan](#): > > Again, even if the Catholic Church is evil enough to go against the law and leave communities without hospitals, you can expect that: 1. State legislatures will pass emergency laws that keep them functional. 2. The Catholic Church isn’t going to get any government money to keep hospitals open any more. 3. People, who already think the Catholic Church is completely full of shit (including most Catholics) will think even less of them. And as I asked **Cheesesteak** , do you have any evidence that they won’t do just that? > [@Simplicio](#): > > So your basically saying that they can close if they want to, all that will happen is that they’ll be assessed the legal penalties of doing so? I guess thats true, but its pretty close to tautological. Your initial posts made it sound like you were proposing some sort of loophole by which the Church could close the Hospital without permission and avoid the legal penalities of having done so. I was proposing nothing. If that’s the impression you got, it was because you were reading more into my post than I put into it. All I was doing was pointing out that everyone who’s shouting “The government should _make_ them do it the way we want” were neglecting the very real fact that the government can’t. The RCC always has the very real option of quitting, and the people who are demanding the RCC do it a certain way will then have to live with the fact that, for a while at least, no one will be doing it at all, let alone their way. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I’m starting to think you’re being dense on purpose. The only density here is on the part of people who refuse to understand that the RCC can quit, if they don’t want to do what people are demanding they do. I’m not the dense one for pointing that out. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rcc-cardinal-says-theyll-shut-down-all-hospitals-if-they-have-to/614218/50 "2012-02-28T21:48:07Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > The only density here is on the part of people who refuse to understand that the RCC can quit, if they don’t want to do what people are demanding they do. I’m not the dense one for pointing that out. In the OP, I specified that they would quit. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rcc-cardinal-says-theyll-shut-down-all-hospitals-if-they-have-to/614218/51 "2012-02-28T22:01:55Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > Asserting that doesn’t make it so. Do you have any evidence that they won’t? Yes, I have conducted a thorough study, using a computer simulation of Francis Cardinal George. Results: In 99% of the trials, he did not choose to padlock the entrances of hospitals, after rolling the ICU patients to a convenient parking lot. In the remaining 1%, he flew around Chicago in blue underpants and razed the hospitals with his explosive x-ray vision. Luckily, he only knocked down 3 before Joe Biden arrived in his flying Trans-Am and saved the day. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rcc-cardinal-says-theyll-shut-down-all-hospitals-if-they-have-to/614218/52 "2012-02-28T22:09:17Z")
Is this really Cardinal Nutjob’s call? Doesn’t he have a bunch of folks he has to answer to? The Pope, at the very least? Do the catholic churches in question enter into contracts with insurance companies and other entities? Would they be sued for breech if they just up and closed their doors? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rcc-cardinal-says-theyll-shut-down-all-hospitals-if-they-have-to/614218/53 "2012-02-28T22:23:44Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Yes, I have conducted a thorough study, using a computer simulation of Francis Cardinal George. > Results: > In 99% of the trials, he did not choose to padlock the entrances of hospitals, after rolling the ICU patients to a convenient parking lot. > > In the remaining 1%, he flew around Chicago in blue underpants and razed the hospitals with his explosive x-ray vision. Luckily, he only knocked down 3 before Joe Biden arrived in his flying Trans-Am and saved the day. Okay. Just so you have valid cites. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rcc-cardinal-says-theyll-shut-down-all-hospitals-if-they-have-to/614218/54 "2012-02-28T22:30:43Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > In the OP, I specified that they would quit. I wasn’t addressing your OP. I was addressing others in this thread who keep hand-waving away the fact that they do, indeed, have every right and ability to quit. If anything, I’m re-emphasizing that specification of your OP. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rcc-cardinal-says-theyll-shut-down-all-hospitals-if-they-have-to/614218/55 "2012-02-28T22:35:54Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Yes, I have conducted a thorough study, using a computer simulation of Francis Cardinal George. Computer simulations are not predictive. They only spit out results based on the assumptions you put into them. They can be used to validate those assumptions, if the predicted result matches reality, but they are dependent on the validity of those assumptions for their results to be accurate. Your evidence isn’t actually evidence of anything. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rcc-cardinal-says-theyll-shut-down-all-hospitals-if-they-have-to/614218/56 "2012-02-28T22:36:41Z")
Nobody is arguing that they don’t have the ability to quit. Everyone is pointing out that they can’t just shut the doors tomorrow, as you imply. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rcc-cardinal-says-theyll-shut-down-all-hospitals-if-they-have-to/614218/57 "2012-02-29T00:17:28Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Nobody is arguing that they don’t have the ability to quit. Everyone is pointing out that they can’t just shut the doors tomorrow, as you imply. Tomorrow? Likely not. In six months? They almost certainly can. I never tried to imply they could or would shut their doors tomorrow. I merely point out that they can, if they choose, shut down a lot faster than people seem to assume. Perhaps in as little as one month or even less from the decision to do so. And possibly, if they choose to keep the decision secret up until the last possible instant, within days of announcing the closing. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rcc-cardinal-says-theyll-shut-down-all-hospitals-if-they-have-to/614218/58 "2012-02-29T00:38:41Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > Tomorrow? Likely not. In six months? They almost certainly can. I never tried to imply they could or would shut their doors tomorrow. I merely point out that they can, if they choose, shut down a lot faster than people seem to assume. Perhaps in as little as one month or even less from the decision to do so. And possibly, if they choose to keep the decision secret up until the last possible instant, within days of announcing the closing. This isn’t going to happen, so I don’t think we’ll ever know factually, but I don’t think your correct. The Church can certainly quit _running_ the hospital and devest itself. But I don’t think they can physically close it down without permission from the State, and in cases where there’s a single hospital serving a community, they won’t get that permission. You say they can padlock the doors, and I guess they physically could do so, but then they could also physically just shoot all the doctors and burn the building down. Both would disrupt hospital operations, but both would be criminal acts and would entail criminal penalties. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rcc-cardinal-says-theyll-shut-down-all-hospitals-if-they-have-to/614218/59 "2012-02-29T02:25:55Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Yes, I have conducted a thorough study, using a computer simulation of Francis Cardinal George. > Results: > In 99% of the trials, he did not choose to padlock the entrances of hospitals, after rolling the ICU patients to a convenient parking lot. > > In the remaining 1%, he flew around Chicago in blue underpants and razed the hospitals with his explosive x-ray vision. Luckily, he only knocked down 3 before Joe Biden arrived in his flying Trans-Am and saved the day. If he did do that, I just might start going to church again. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rcc-cardinal-says-theyll-shut-down-all-hospitals-if-they-have-to/614218/60 "2012-02-29T02:39:13Z")
There is no chance that Cardinal George will go through with this, because if he were going to, he would have already done so. He’s just blowing hot air in an egotistical effort to gain attention. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rcc-cardinal-says-theyll-shut-down-all-hospitals-if-they-have-to/614218.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rcc-cardinal-says-theyll-shut-down-all-hospitals-if-they-have-to/614218.md?page=4)