I suppose. But the fact that there’s a 12 bar structure on the verse AND a non 12 bar chorus as well makes it definitely different than the typical blues structure. 12 bar blues is a verse structure repeated. No chorus in addition to that.
Which is why I specifically mention the verse. Duh. Also, take something like “St Louis Blues” which also travels a bit from the 12-bar part. I never said the whole of the song was 12-bar-blues. The interesting part is that it’s a 12-bar-blues verse that may not be immediately identifiable as one. I heard that song dozens of times before realizing that was going on.
That’s a pretty big caveat you’re giving yourself there. As I stated, 12 bar blues format doesn’t allow for a verse and a chorus, just predictable verses so that’s not hard to follow for beginner musicians at Saturday jams. There are variations on the blues of course, and Peg’s verses are based on this format, certainly. Easy to hear. But there’s no way you’d trot out Peg for a Saturday jam with strangers when it comes to the chorus, a prominent part of the song. Duh.
Which is great if I had actually said that.
Anyhow, that’s enough. I was just trying to point out an interesting and fun way 12-bar-blues can be used in a pop sing where it’s not obvious.
Fair enough. There are also many Beatles songs that are based on 12 bar blues (with some variations), like “You Can’t Do That,” “She’s a Woman,” and “Can’t Buy Me Love” that don’t sound much like 12 bar on the surface. But very loosely based on 12 bar blues in the verses.
And yes, traditional 12-bar-blues is over and over until your brain bleeds. But there are standards like “St Louis Blues” that subvert structure a bit.
Also 16 bar blues. I remember learning that variation at the clubs. And Stormy Monday is always good for some variety. And Jesus Just Left Chicago by ZZ Top. And Mercury Blues for a chord variation in the third section. Come to think of it, there are lots of variations on the basic 12 bar structure.
Oh absolutely. And if you want to get jazzy, you can throw a bunch of ii-V-Is into it and that sort of shit.
(And I’m not sure what you mean by 16-bar-blues for St. Louis Woman. The main part “I hate to see the evening sun come down” is straight-up 12-bar blues. I’ve played it probably a hundred or two times. See here,) It changes up when it gets to “St. Louis Woman, with her diamond rings.”
Anyhow, I think this is too esoteric for most of the folks following along, so I’m bowing out.
I’ll admit I never “heard” it either, and that’s someone who’s a Dan superfan as well as someone who knows blues structure. The blues form is so natural and integrated into so much music that it can slip in unnoticed. Thank you.
I’ve had very similar arguments with people about what is or is not a blues form, and oftentimes run up against the fact we’re talking about two completely different things. There is THE BLUES, which involves sincerity, poverty and pain, and then there is merely the 12-bar form (or muliples of 12 bars), which is just a structure that can be set to something light and bouncy like the verses of “Peg” but not its chorus. This is to say, “Peg” is not THE BLUES, but “Peg” uses the same 12-bar structure in its verses as does the musical form of the blues, including the old authentic kind.
It’s almost like saying “Twinkle Twinkle Little Star” is the same thing as Mozart’s Twelve Variations on “Ah vous dirai-je, Maman.” I mean, it isn’t, but it is.
Never mind.
Also the ABC Song. And Baa Baa Black Sheep.
If there never were 12 bar blues, could Chuck Berry have existed?
I’m lazy so I usually just play 8 bar blues.
It’s almost the other way round, I think.
The original blues players often just improvised and there was no fixed pattern they stuck to.
The 12-bar is a sort of distillation or codification of the blues into a form we all recognize.
Chuck Berry wasn’t the first to do this by any means, but he certainly helped to make it familiar.
Though a lot of his songs aren’t actually 12-bars…