# Re: Are poor spellers stupid? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [May 18, 2012, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-are-poor-spellers-stupid/622312 "2012-05-18T14:25:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-are-poor-spellers-stupid/622312/21 "2012-05-19T15:57:33Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > Speaking of homophones, I’m pretty sick of seeing Americans write “make due” when the phrase is “make do” - which is obvious to everyone except Americans because due and do are not homophones anywhere else. I find it annoying when Americans confuse T and D in spellings, like “congradulations” or “utter” (udder). Oh, and “could care less” and “that’s so cliche” seem to be particularly American. Not trying to pick on Americans by the way. I find poor spelling annoying, but it’s the stuff that _anyone_ can do something about that bothers me. Yes, there’s spell check, but also, if you’re spelling something wrong surely you must be aware that you’re not sure how to spell it, and therefore look it up? It’s the “it doesn’t matter” attitude - even when it’s on a sign or an essay - that irritates me. Poor spelling should be something to be ashamed of, just like any personal failing. But it also irritates me that I can’t really come up with a good reason for _why_ it matters except that it looks bad to people whose opinions matter. But then why _should_ it look bad to those people? The original letter to Cecil is actually a prime example. To me, writing a letter about spelling and not even checking your spelling in it is not necessarily a sign of poor intelligence or even lack of education, it’s just having very low standards. I probably look like a massive snob now… ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-are-poor-spellers-stupid/622312/22 "2012-05-19T16:06:07Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > I probably look like a massive snob now… I learned English way back when mostly from reading/writing. That is the reason why I may make a typo or two, but I do not misspell when I write. Most people learn the language from hearing it/talking, and the spelling is secondary. So even though it grates on me when I see people misspell fairly elementary words in personal communication, I am willing to give it a pass. But there is absolutely no place for misspellings or grammatical errors in professional/business writing. If I see misspelled words in someone writing me on business matters, my opinion of their professionalism or expertise immediately drops. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-are-poor-spellers-stupid/622312/23 "2012-05-19T16:09:42Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > I find it annoying when Americans confuse T and D in spellings, like “congradulations” or “utter” (udder). Oh, and “could care less” and “that’s so cliche” seem to be particularly American. > > Not trying to pick on Americans by the way. > > I find poor spelling annoying, but it’s the stuff that _anyone_ can do something about that bothers me. Yes, there’s spell check, but also, if you’re spelling something wrong surely you must be aware that you’re not sure how to spell it, and therefore look it up? It’s the “it doesn’t matter” attitude - even when it’s on a sign or an essay - that irritates me. Poor spelling should be something to be ashamed of, just like any personal failing. But it also irritates me that I can’t really come up with a good reason for _why_ it matters except that it looks bad to people whose opinions matter. But then why _should_ it look bad to those people? > > The original letter to Cecil is actually a prime example. To me, writing a letter about spelling and not even checking your spelling in it is not necessarily a sign of poor intelligence or even lack of education, it’s just having very low standards. > > I probably look like a massive snob now… Well to devil’s advocate, spelling is said to preserve etymological data. You could in theory tell where a word comes from, in part by the conventions used in its spelling. That said, phonetics would be more useful I think. Learning Spanish one of the cool things is words are spelled the way they sound. Makes things a lot easier. Plus who wants some fresh [ghoti](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghoti)? ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-are-poor-spellers-stupid/622312/24 "2012-05-19T16:21:47Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Well to devil’s advocate, spelling is said to preserve etymological data. You could in theory tell where a word comes from, in part by the conventions used in its spelling. I love the way you can often work out the meaning or origins of a word from the spelling. But it doesn’t seem a good reason to spell properly, or at least not a reason why _everyone_ should. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-are-poor-spellers-stupid/622312/25 "2012-05-19T20:17:43Z")
I awate corecctions wid baited bref. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-are-poor-spellers-stupid/622312/26 "2012-05-19T20:33:28Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Well to devil’s advocate, spelling is said to preserve etymological data. You could in theory tell where a word comes from, in part by the conventions used in its spelling. In theory. But go find 10 people and ask them if the spelling of debt suggests any sort of etymological history to them. I’d be very surprised if more than a few of them go to _debitum_ ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-are-poor-spellers-stupid/622312/27 "2012-05-19T21:28:54Z")
A message board isn’t a very good place to evaluate anyones writing. Most of my messages are written hastily during coffee breaks at work. Also, I purposely try to use a conversational tone. “I figure the chicken has baked long enough.” “I used up the eggs yesterday.” I try to write on message boards like I talk. Not like I compose technical writings at work. I’m well aware that “The chicken has baked long enough.” is correct, but that’s not how I talk. It also doesn’t connotate that I’m “guessing” at how long the chicken needs to bake. Some of history’s greatest minds hated our ridiculous, convoluted spelling and grammar rules. I’m a computer analyst and live by algorithms and procedural code. Grammar and spelling rules have always bedeviled me preciously because they aren’t consistent or logical. I always admired ee cummings for his hatred of capital letters. He always signed his name in lower case and IIRC he didn’t use periods for his initials. Funny how these nitwits at wikipedia capitalize it and use periods anyway. > **[E. E. Cummings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._E._Cummings)** > > Edward Estlin Cummings, who was also known as E. E. Cummings, e. e. cummings and e e cummings (October 14, 1894 – September 3, 1962), was an American poet, painter, essayist, author, and playwright. He wrote approximately 2,900 poems, two autobiographical novels, four plays, and several essays. He is often regarded as one of the most important American poets of the 20th century. Cummings is associated with modernist free-form poetry. Much of his work has idiosyncratic syntax and uses lower-case... ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-are-poor-spellers-stupid/622312/28 "2012-05-19T22:35:01Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > The original letter to Cecil is actually a prime example. To me, writing a letter about spelling and not even checking your spelling in it is not necessarily a sign of poor intelligence or even lack of education, it’s just having very low standards. > > I probably look like a massive snob now… Nah, just a noob. That one will always misspell a word while complaining about someone else’s spelling is so common here, even among members with high standards, that it has its own name, **Gaudere** ’s Law. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2012, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-are-poor-spellers-stupid/622312/29 "2012-05-20T13:47:45Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Nah, just a noob. That one will always misspell a word while complaining about someone else’s spelling is so common here, even among members with high standards, that it has its own name, **Gaudere** ’s Law. A snoob? ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2012, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-are-poor-spellers-stupid/622312/30 "2012-05-20T22:38:15Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > Speaking of homophones, I’m pretty sick of seeing Americans write “make due” when the phrase is “make do” - which is obvious to everyone except Americans because due and do are not homophones anywhere else. They are not homophones in my idiolect, but I must say I can’t recall ever encountering that particular solecism. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2012, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-are-poor-spellers-stupid/622312/31 "2012-05-20T22:44:43Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > In theory. But go find 10 people and ask them if the spelling of debt suggests any sort of etymological history to them. I’d be very surprised if more than a few of them go to _debitum_ Bad example, actually. The _b_ in _debt_ is a genteelism. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2012, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-are-poor-spellers-stupid/622312/32 "2012-05-26T21:34:17Z")
It’s not just homophones. I’m just finishing reading [In Pursuit of the Unknown: 17 Equations That Changed the World](http://www.amazon.com/In-Pursuit-Unknown-Equations-Changed/dp/0465029736) by Ian Stewart. Twice he writes “One the other hand …”. I don’t think anyone would claim Stewart is stupid. I used to think that spellcheckers made me a worse speller. Then I came across some old stuff I wrote. I’m pretty sure I’m better now. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2012, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-are-poor-spellers-stupid/622312/33 "2012-05-26T23:59:41Z")
> [@John\_W.Kennedy](#): > > Bad example, actually. The _b_ in _debt_ is a genteelism. That’s my point. It was artificially added to augment the origin in the minds of english speakers. But the end result is that no one still remembers and the language is slightly harder to spell for no benefit. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-are-poor-spellers-stupid/622312/34 "2012-05-29T04:51:42Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I always admired ee cummings for his hatred of capital letters. He always signed his name in lower case and IIRC he didn’t use periods for his initials. Funny how these nitwits at wikipedia capitalize it and use periods anyway. > [E. E. Cummings - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._E._Cummings) From your link: > [@](#): > > Cummings’s publishers and others have sometimes echoed the unconventional orthography in his poetry by writing his name in lowercase and without periods (full stops), but normal orthography (uppercase and full stops) is supported by scholarship, and preferred by publishers today. Cummings himself used both the lowercase and capitalized versions, though he most often signed his name with capitals. Nitwits, eh? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-are-poor-spellers-stupid/622312.md?page=1)