# Re Bengazi post closed by Marley23 in Elections
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [May 12, 2013, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141 "2013-05-12T10:56:56Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2013, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/41 "2013-05-13T02:44:55Z")
Okay, I want a straight answer to this, then. If they weren’t entirely honest or even outright lied in the press conferences…SO FUCKING WHAT?! Is this the first administration in history that ever told an untruth in a press conference? Were they under oath or something? What’s the crime? What’s the malfeasance? What’s the big fucking deal?!
The rightwingers are foaming at the mouth like Obama personally burned down the consulate. It’s hard to watch any of this without thinking that every GOP in Congress is absolutely batshit insane and needs to be tranqed…preferably by high-calibre dart rifle. (I’d pay for CC feed of that, actually.)
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### Author:  [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2013, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/42 "2013-05-13T03:47:22Z")
> [@Oakminster](#):
>
> There’s so much to despise about that woman, people can hate her from a variety of perspectives.
Then please give us some instead of stupid things you know we won’t agree with. If there are so many, there should be some that apply to us liberals. As it is, it just seems like your hatred is irrational.
As for Bengazi, they fished and fished until they found something, and I’ve already seen people who can’t tell the difference between what was found and what they wanted to be found. The word terrorist was removed to keep people from being alarmed. And mentions of Al Qaeda were removed, possibly to avoid biasing the FBI, but possibly for political reasons.
The only stupidity is if the second possibility is true, and that’s only because Obama would have won anyways.
I mean, I admit that it was worse than I thought, but only just barely.
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### Author:  [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2013, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/43 "2013-05-13T10:07:37Z")
> [@Xema](#):
>
> Definitely not.
>
> But until some sort of plausible evidence of a video-protest demonstration in Benghazi emerges, citing this as an explanation for the attack isn’t a “mistake” - it’s much closer to a lie. When you have folks who were present during the attack in Benghazi, who you can talk to whenever you wish, and who know that this story is way off base, it’s laughable to suggest that what happened recently in Cairo has any particular relevance.
>
> And again, this explanation - lame in the short term - collapses entirely with the passage of time. It might barely work to cover what was said in the immediate aftermath, but this should have been put right within a day or two at most.
>
> We should also consider the fact that the talking points began with a reasonably accurate description of events. It was only after a number of edits that they became misleading.
Nonsense. They had tons of information from many different sources at the beginning and needed to vet it to narrow it down.
I don’t know if you’ve ever worked with other people in collaboration, but the talking points went through what anything that is worked on by a group goes through, several iterations.
Calling it a lie is complete horseshit.
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### Author:  [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2013, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/44 "2013-05-13T11:16:21Z")
> [@Xema](#):
>
> Definitely not.
>
> But until some sort of plausible evidence of a video-protest demonstration in Benghazi emerges, citing this as an explanation for the attack isn’t a “mistake” - it’s much closer to a lie. When you have folks who were present during the attack in Benghazi, who you can talk to whenever you wish, and who know that this story is way off base, it’s laughable to suggest that what happened recently in Cairo has any particular relevance.
>
> And again, this explanation - lame in the short term - collapses entirely with the passage of time. It might barely work to cover what was said in the immediate aftermath, but this should have been put right within a day or two at most.
>
> We should also consider the fact that the talking points began with a reasonably accurate description of events. It was only after a number of edits that they became misleading.
Do you realize how misleading and dishonest your entire argument is here when you finished your analysis with this:
“We should also consider the fact that the talking points began with a reasonably accurate description of events. It was only after a number of edits that they became misleading”
That is because the original unedited pure and holy reasonable CIA talking points was the draft that mentioned a demonstration about the movie at the beginning of the Benghazi.
So when attempting to make an argument about the dishonesty of public official wrapped up in a crisis situation that the critic have the decency to apply some honesty at least to the fact pattern they have developed to throw such criticism around.
Do you admit the talking points originally mentioned a demonstration taking place at Benghazi and that CIA Director Petraeus testified to that fact early on to House Republicans?
If so how will you alter your argument to fit the facts?
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### Author:  [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2013, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/45 "2013-05-13T11:45:18Z")
> [@SeldomSeen](#):
>
> Or Nelson Rockefeller?
> SS
Robert Kennedy seems like the closest analogue to me. Maybe Oakminster is a big LBJ fan, and so, like LBJ did, he constitutionally despises Bobby K and, by extension, anyone who resembles him politically.
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### Author:  [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2013, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/46 "2013-05-13T13:12:33Z")
> [@Oakminster](#):
>
> She’s a power hungry liberal elitist from New York. That’s a particularly disgusting combination, and one that should never hold national office.
You’re not showing much respect for your next president. If she does nothing more than keep Rand Paul, Rick Santorum, and Michele Bachmann out of the White House, I say make room for her on Mt. Rushmore.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2013, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/47 "2013-05-13T13:53:43Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#):
>
> You’re not showing much respect for your next president. If she does nothing more than keep Rand Paul, Rick Santorum, and Michele Bachmann out of the White House, I say make room for her on Mt. Rushmore.
Does anyone really need to make an **effort** to keep Paul, Santorum and Bachmann out of the WH?
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2013, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/48 "2013-05-13T14:23:07Z")
> [@BigT](#):
>
> Then please give us some instead of stupid things you know we won’t agree with.
Better yet, please stick to the thread topic. This appears to be a discussion of Benghazi and Clinton’s chances in 2016, not a general list of reasons people like her or don’t.
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### Author:  [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2013, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/49 "2013-05-13T14:39:37Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#):
>
> Does anyone really need to make an **effort** to keep Paul, Santorum and Bachmann out of the WH?
I’m convinced that Paul or Santorum will be the nominee. So it’s going to be the fall chore in 2016, like raking the leaves, cleaning the gutters, and keeping Paul out of the WH.
Back to the topic, I can’t see this hurting Hillary. By ceaseless repetition “Benghazigate!”, there may be a very small number of people that would withhold their vote, but really the whole Benghazi circus is just whipping up those who already hate Hillary into a frenzy. Preaching to the choir, more or less.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/50 "2013-05-13T15:24:52Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#):
>
> I’m convinced that Paul or Santorum will be the nominee.
Even given the present state of the GOP, how is that remotely possible?!
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### Author:  [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2013, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/51 "2013-05-13T15:39:23Z")
> [@Oakminster](#):
>
> She’s a power hungry liberal elitist from New York. That’s a particularly disgusting combination, and one that should never hold national office.
Actually she’s from Chicago.
Are power hungry liberal elitists from Chicago as bad as those from New York.
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### Author:  [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/52 "2013-05-13T15:42:13Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#):
>
> Even given the present state of the GOP, how is that remotely possible?!
My reasoning is thus: It’s Santorum’s turn. Worked for Romney in '12, McCain in '08, Dole in '96, GHW Bush in '88, Reagan in '80. Santorum was the last guy to hang up the spikes last year, it’s his turn.
The party base is convinced that Romney lost because he wasn’t a True Believer. They are going to nominate a True Believer in '16 just as they did in '80 and '64. If they can’t swallow Santorum, they’e going to take Paul because he’s already essentially in the race and also a True Believer.
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### Author:  [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/53 "2013-05-13T15:52:06Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#):
>
> Actually she’s from Chicago.
>
> Are power hungry liberal elitists from Chicago as bad as those from New York.
**O** f course not,
**B** ro.
**A** s if the
**M** ighty Republican
**A** rmy would hate anyone from Chicago.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2013, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/54 "2013-05-13T15:56:34Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#):
>
> The party base is convinced that Romney lost because he wasn’t a True Believer.
They can’t possibly be that deluded.
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### Author:  [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2013, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/55 "2013-05-13T16:13:07Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#):
>
> They can’t possibly be that deluded.
I find your lack of faith (in the obvious) disturbing.
What has the GOP done in the last 5 years or so that would convince you that they aren’t that deluded?
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### Author:  [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/56 "2013-05-13T16:24:57Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#):
>
> Actually she’s from Chicago.
>
> Are power hungry liberal elitists from Chicago as bad as those from New York.
Well, they probably bathe more often, but are equally annoying.
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### Author:  [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2013, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/57 "2013-05-13T16:44:18Z")
> [@jayjay](#):
>
> Okay, I want a straight answer to this, then. If they weren’t entirely honest or even outright lied in the press conferences…SO FUCKING WHAT?! Is this the first administration in history that ever told an untruth in a press conference? Were they under oath or something? What’s the crime? What’s the malfeasance? What’s the big fucking deal?!
>
> The rightwingers are foaming at the mouth like Obama personally burned down the consulate. It’s hard to watch any of this without thinking that every GOP in Congress is absolutely batshit insane and needs to be tranqed…preferably by high-calibre dart rifle. (I’d pay for CC feed of that, actually.)
Martha Stewart: The government lying to the public. It’s a Good thing.
---
### Author:  [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2013, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/58 "2013-05-13T16:50:32Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#):
>
> Martha Stewart: The government lying to the public. It’s a Good thing.
Sometimes, yes. Like when trying not to tip off a suspect group that they’re suspect. Like when trying to keep classified information classified. Like when trying to reassure the public when quite a lot about an event just isn’t known yet.
Why the hell am I bothering to try to explain this? It’s not like anyone who actually believes there’s a scandal here is going to be amenable to any kind of facts or logic…
Hell, why don’t we just make public a nice list of the real names of all of our CIA agents, along with a recent photograph and all of their contacts? Oh, sorry…forgot the Bush admin had already made a start on that one.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2013, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/59 "2013-05-13T17:40:42Z")
> [@jayjay](#):
>
> I find your lack of faith (in the obvious) disturbing.
>
> What has the GOP done in the last 5 years or so that would convince you that they aren’t that deluded?
Nominate Romney in 2012 – because they **knew** that Obama, without working up a sweat, would wipe the floor with Santorum or Paul or Gingrich or any “True Believer” they had in the bullpen, and so he would have. It would’ve been a heavier landslide than Reagan in '84.
---
### Author:  [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/60 "2013-05-13T17:44:53Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#):
>
> Nominate Romney in 2012 – because they **knew** that Obama, without working up a sweat, would wipe the floor with Santorum or Paul or Gingrich or any “True Believer” they had in the bullpen, and so he would have. It would’ve been a heavier landslide than Reagan in '84.
I’ll take it. I forgot about all the fudging going on to get Romney past the primaries. The entire business wing of the GOP was pulling him along with ropes made of money until they finally exhausted all the Not-Romneys the base wanted to vote for.
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