# Re Bengazi post closed by Marley23 in Elections **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 12, 2013, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141 "2013-05-12T10:56:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/81 "2013-05-14T16:05:42Z")
If only the demmycrats hadn’t cut defense spending, there could be a U.S. Marine in every private residence in the world! ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/82 "2013-05-14T18:01:42Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Do you admit the talking points originally mentioned a demonstration taking place at Benghazi … Not quite. What they originally said was “the attacks in Benghazi were spontaneously inspired by the protests at the US Embassy in Cairo and evolved into a direct assault …” So what’s mentioned is not a demonstration taking place at Benghazi, but rather attacks inspired by Cairo protests. Significant in the initial draft were “we do know that Islamic extremists with ties to al Qa’ida participated in the attack”, evidence of the involvement of members of Ansar al-Sharia, and reference to previous Benghazi attacks. The omission of these in subsequent drafts certainly helped invite the erroneous conclusion that what happened in Benghazi was a protest gone wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/83 "2013-05-14T18:12:03Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The attack occurred 400 miles away from the embassy, at a private residence which local police were responsible for, so the state of embassy security is irrelevant anyway. Benghazi wasn’t an embassy, but the US ambassador was certainly there. And he certainly [made requests for for improvements in security](http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/10/documents-back-up-claims-of-requests-for-greater-security-in-benghazi/), which were not provided. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/84 "2013-05-14T18:20:48Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I can’t really follow the outrage that we didn’t understand the terrorists’ motivation completely right away. The problem doesn’t appear to be a slow understanding of terrorists’ motivation - it’s that information about the fact that this was an attack by terrorists (known by folks present to be the case as it was happening) was suppressed. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/85 "2013-05-14T18:36:20Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > Benghazi wasn’t an embassy, but the US ambassador was certainly there. And he certainly [made requests for for improvements in security](http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/10/documents-back-up-claims-of-requests-for-greater-security-in-benghazi/), which were not provided. He probably shouldn’t have decided to travel to Benghazi without his security detail, then. ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/86 "2013-05-14T19:07:17Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > The problem doesn’t appear to be a slow understanding of terrorists’ motivation - it’s that information about the fact that this was an attack by terrorists (known by folks present to be the case as it was happening) was suppressed. Yes, as House Oversight Chief of the Inquisition Darrel Issa said yesterday on (where else) Fox News: > [@](#): > > “The president sent a letter to the President of Libya where he didn’t call it a terrorist attack even when at the time the President of Libya was calling it pre-planned Sept. 11 terrorist attack,” Issa told Fox News’ Megyn Kelly. “The words that are being used carefully — like you just said, ‘act of terror’ — an ‘act of terror’ is different than a ‘terrorist attack.’ The truth is, this was a terrorist attack, this had Al Qaeda at it.” So the position is that “Act of Terror” is not the same as “Terrorist Attack”. Therefore, when then-president George W. Bush said the following on September 13th, 2001, he was also supressing the truth: > [@](#): > > It was just a sobering moment for Laura and me. But we again thank the hospital, the docs, the nurses and, of course, again tell the families that the nation prays for those who have been injured by this unbelievable act of terror. Really guys, this whole Benghazi “scandal” boils down to what word someone used in the media (an endless, naval-gazing fascination for the talk-radio and Sunday-pundit windbags). It also depends on believing that Obama instantly knew this one act in a war-zone would so ruin his record as a terrorist killer that he had to cover it up or lose the election. That theory has so many holes (the election was never that close, it ignores Obama’s rhetorical skills to rally the country behind him like Bush did after 9/11, the losses–though personally tragic–can’t possibly be spun as some great defeat in the GWOT) it’s ridiculous on its face. Obama is right; the whole thing defies logic–unless you assume it’s just a political game the GOP is playing. Given that’s their default mode with this president, I think most people know the entire “scandal” is bogus. Not the tragic act itself, which we should investigate to improve protecting foreign diplomats–though I’m sure if it requires spending $0.01 on someone other than bankers and business, the GOP will carp about that as well. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/87 "2013-05-14T19:27:47Z")
> [@CJJ](#): > > It also depends on believing that Obama instantly knew this one act in a war-zone would so ruin his record as a terrorist killer that he had to cover it up or lose the election. Well, obviously Obama could never have been reelected if the people found out Benghazi was a terrorist attack. Just ask President Romney. ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/88 "2013-05-15T00:16:52Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > sorry, **Age Quod Agis,** I don’t see the lying. Granted, there was inadequate security, but that kind of thing happens in a complicated world. There are probably hundreds of places that need more security on any given day, but get by without incident. It’s easy to say in retrospect that someone screwed up, but those kinds of decisions are not made by Secretary of State or POTUS. So the President and Secretary of State are not responsible for making correct decisions if the issue is complicated? That’s their job. To address very complicated issues, and get them right. If you’re going to give the President and Secretary of State a pass every time the issue is “complicated,” then I wonder how you can ever hold the Obama admin – or any admin – responsible for anything they do. Second, the President and Secretary of State are responsible for the decisions of the people they oversee and appoint. It doesn’t seem to have been a defense that Bush didn’t personally make all the decisions with regard to Hurricane Katrina and the tactics in Iraq. Why does a different standard apply to Obama and Clinton? Moreover, it is incumbent upon the President and especially the Secretary of State to make sure there is adequate security to protect embassy personnel. It’s one of the essential functions of their job. “We got away with it a number of times without anyone dying” is not a defense when someone does die. > [@](#): > > I can’t really follow the outrage that we didn’t understand the terrorists’ motivation completely right away. There were, after all, spontaneous demonstrations throughout the region at the time, some were getting out of hand. Besides, I recall the right wing after 9/11 telling us that even asking “why” we were attacked is implying it was our fault. The outrage is not that we didn’t understand the terrorists’ motivation completely right away. The outrage is that the admin did understand what had happened, and then misrepresented what had happened for political gain. That’s the allegation. And it’s an allegation that **jayjay** says doesn’t matter, because the Obama admin gets a pass even if they lied lying. And I never said that asking “why” the 9/11 attacks occurred implies that it was our fault. So please go batter your strawmen elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/89 "2013-05-15T00:22:15Z")
I just posted this in the other thread, so I thought I should put it here too: [CNN Blows Huge Hole In GOP Efforts To Prosecute Benghazi Scandal](http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2013/05/14/cnn-blows-huge-hole-in-gop-efforts-to-prosecute-benghazi-scandal/) So this is what ABC wrote: > [@ABC](#): > > “In an email dated 9/14/12 at 9:34 p.m. -three days after the attack and two days before Ambassador Rice appeared on the Sunday shows – Deputy National Security Advisor Ben Rhodes wrote an email saying the State Department’s concerns needed to be addressed. (ABC then quotes the email as saying…)“We must make sure that the talking points reflect all agency equities, including those of the State Department, and we don’t want to undermine the FBI investigation. We thus will work through the talking points tomorrow morning at the Deputies Committee meeting.” This is what the email actually said: > [@Deputy National Security Advisor for Strategic Communications Ben Rhodes](#): > > “All – > > Sorry to be late to this discussion. We need to resolve this in a way that respects all of the relevant equities, particularly the investigation. > > “There is a ton of wrong information getting out into the public domain from Congress and people who are not particularly informed. Insofar as we have firmed up assessments that don’t compromise intel or the investigation, we need to have the capability to correct the record, as there are significant policy and messaging ramifications that would flow from a hardened mis-impression. > > “We can take this up tomorrow morning at deputies.” I’m sure there will be apologies. ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/90 "2013-05-15T00:25:37Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > 1. _Republicans_ voted to cut funding for embassy security. Twice. Including Darrell Issa. > 2. The attack occurred 400 miles away from the embassy, at a private residence which local police were responsible for, so the state of embassy security is irrelevant anyway. I’d ask for a cite, but I’m not sure you’re even making a point here. On the one hand, you argue that Republicans are responsible for cutting _embassy_ security. On the other hand, you argue that the state of _embassy_ security is irrelevant. So you appear to be arguing that the Republicans did something that was irrelevant. What you seem to be ignoring is the fact that the Obama admin was responsible for the security at Benghazi, and the Obama admin provided “grossly inadequate” security. That’s not just my conclusion. That’s the conclusion of the Pickering report, and the Obama admin agrees. ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/91 "2013-05-15T00:40:29Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > He probably shouldn’t have decided to travel to Benghazi without his security detail, then. No way. This is patently, demonstrably false. Please take your falsehoods elsewhere. [From CNN](http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/12/politics/fact-check-benghazi-security): > [@](#): > > Five diplomatic security special agents were in Benghazi at the time of the attack, two of whom only happened to be there because they had traveled with Stevens from Tripoli, according to testimony. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/92 "2013-05-15T00:48:09Z")
> [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](#): > > No way. This is patently, demonstrably false. Please take your falsehoods elsewhere. [From CNN](http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/12/politics/fact-check-benghazi-security): Did he have access to more than those two? ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/93 "2013-05-15T01:11:15Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Did he have access to more than those two? Please see the first part of the quoted statement (emphasis added): > [@](#): > > Five diplomatic security special agents were in Benghazi at the time of the attack, two of whom only happened to be there because they had traveled with Stevens from Tripoli, according to testimony. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/94 "2013-05-15T01:15:10Z")
> [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](#): > > Please see the first part of the quoted statement (emphasis added): Yeah, I assumed those were already there. So not part of his detail. Could he have brought more of his security detail? ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/95 "2013-05-15T01:22:06Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Did he have access to more than those two? I should also point out that the attack took place in two waves. The first attack apparently occurred around 9:30 pm, and resulted in the death of Amb. Stevens and one other American. After the first attack, 6 American security personnel flew from Tripoli to Benghazi to provide additional security in case of a subsequent attack. They arrived before a 2nd attack occurred at around 1:30 am. ([cite](http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/06/18086898-official-us-special-forces-team-wasnt-allowed-to-fly-to-benghazi-during-attack?lite)) So I would assume that there were 5 security personnel at the Benghazi site during the first attack, and another 6 (making a total of 10 or 11, depending on whether the American killed in the first attack was security personnel or not) during the second attack. ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/96 "2013-05-15T01:24:14Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Yeah, I assumed those were already there. So not part of his detail. > > Could he have brought more of his security detail? If you have evidence, feel free to provide it. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/97 "2013-05-15T01:30:19Z")
> [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](#): > > If you have evidence, feel free to provide it. I was asking you the question. You said that Stevens travelling without his security detail was a lie. I was asking if those two people were his \*entire \*security detail. Of course, unless he had a personal army, he’s not gonna be able to repel a concerted surprise attack by 150 armed men. ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/98 "2013-05-15T01:37:13Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I was asking you the question. You said that Stevens travelling without his security detail was a lie. > > I was asking if those two people were his \*entire \*security detail. Of course, unless he had a personal army, he’s not gonna be able to repel a concerted surprise attack by 150 armed men. First, I didn’t say that Stevens traveling without his security detail was a lie. I said it was false. And it was. Second, I asked you the same question. If you’re suggesting that he wasn’t traveling with his entire security detail, or that he had control over the size of his security detail that traveled with him to Benghazi, then it is incumbent upon you to provide evidence to support your argument. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/99 "2013-05-15T01:40:55Z")
> [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](#): > > First, I didn’t say that Stevens traveling without his security detail was a lie. I said it was false. And it was. > > Second, I asked you the same question. If you’re suggesting that he wasn’t traveling with his entire security detail, or that he had control over the size of his security detail that traveled with him to Benghazi, then it is incumbent upon you to provide evidence to support your argument. I’m not asserting it. I’m asking you. If you don’t have the answer, that’s cool. ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141/100 "2013-05-15T01:51:56Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I’m not asserting it. I’m asking you. If you don’t have the answer, that’s cool. And I’m asking you. If you don’t actually have any evidence, then that’s cool. If you’re not even asserting it, then why would I spend time digging up cites for your not-an-argument? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bengazi-post-closed-by-marley23-in-elections/658141.md?page=6)