# Re bodybuilders after 60. Will juicing really be that bad for you after 60? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 12, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bodybuilders-after-60-will-juicing-really-be-that-bad-for-you-after-60/631291 "2012-08-12T19:17:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bodybuilders-after-60-will-juicing-really-be-that-bad-for-you-after-60/631291/41 "2012-08-15T03:20:25Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Which AAS were being studied? Why does it matter? Your comments such as the following… _“Those people who “abuse” steroids responsibly (yes, I know that is an oxymoronic statement) usually suffer no ill side effects.”_ …were just about “steroids.” > [@](#): > > Were other drugs along with these AAS used by any of these athletes? How was that controlled for? Where are the specifics here?😕 Controlled studies would be unethical as there are known risks involved in the types of cycles bodybuilders take. But you knew that, right? > [@Ambivalid](#): > > Not specifically but generally in the sense that a lot of the bad press regarding steroids is anecdotal and based on incorrect assumptions and scare tactics. So what? If you can’t back up your claims, why not retract them? Again, there aren’t going to be many, if any, controlled studies as it would be unethical. I doubt 31 y.o. Andreas Münzer had table-tennis-ball-sized tumors in his crumbly liver and a heart twice the size of an average man for a reason other than his steroids use. More: > [@](#): > > Consequent alterations of cellular pathology and organ physiology are similar to those seen with heart failure and cardiomyopathy. Hypertension, ventricular remodeling, myocardial ischemia, and sudden cardiac death have each been temporally and causally associated with anabolic steroid use in humans. These effects persist long after use has been discontinued and have significant impact on subsequent morbidity and mortality. The mechanisms of cardiac disease as a result of anabolic steroid use are discussed in this review. > **[The cardiac toxicity of anabolic steroids - PubMed](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9717856/)** > > Anabolic steroids are synthetic derivatives of testosterone that were developed as adjunct therapy for a variety of medical conditions. Today they are most commonly used to enhance athletic performance and muscular development. Both illicit and... ---
**Author:** ![BMax](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bmax/32/4267_2.png) [@BMax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMax)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bodybuilders-after-60-will-juicing-really-be-that-bad-for-you-after-60/631291/42 "2012-08-15T15:20:14Z")
There’s some good information on this page[here](http://www.steroid.com). Liver damage is not uncommon from overusing oral steroids. Overuse of [creatine](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creatine) (not an anabolic steroid, but a chemical that is found in beef and other foods) has been linked to liver and kidney damage. I’m not a doctor, my knowledge of steroids comes from reading what I can find online and training with bodybuilders, both male and female. The sad truth is that most competitive BBers have the attitude that “more is better” and a desire to get bigger at any cost. I know a few guys who have injected 250mg-500mg of testosterone blend for eight to twelve weeks at a time, then used hCG for two weeks and Nolvadex for three weeks post-cycle, trained clean for six months before starting another cycle, with no known negative effects. We’ll see what their health looks like in a few years. In my uneducated opinion, I doubt that level of use will cause any negative effects in the long term. This is a lot less gear than Mr. Olympia competitors use. The big pros use insulin, Deca, Trenbolone, and other drugs I don’t even know about to gain weight. Then there’s clenbuterol, sometimes even meth to cut body fat and lots of diuretics to dry out and show more definition pre-show. ---
**Author:** ![The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_wind_of_my_soul)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bodybuilders-after-60-will-juicing-really-be-that-bad-for-you-after-60/631291/43 "2012-08-15T16:17:00Z")
**x-ray vision** , did you ever take a look at the link I posted? Because if you’re asking for evidence, that’s a whole gold mine of research on the subject. ETA: Here’s the link again: [- YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dHlDWz_u4c) ---
**Author:** ![The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_wind_of_my_soul)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bodybuilders-after-60-will-juicing-really-be-that-bad-for-you-after-60/631291/44 "2012-08-15T16:31:02Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I’ve heard Matarazzo can barely do any physical activity anymore due to angina pain. I heard Dillett got sick but then got better. A video of him in 2010 shows him having the same size as anyone else. > > I wonder how many of the 90s bodybuilders lost all (or most) their muscle by now and don’t stand out in a crowd anymore. People’s bodies are different and I’m assuming some lost most if it once the drugs and massive training regimins stopped. > > I saw a video of Dorian Yates, supposedly he had some health problems too and lost a lot of his muscle. What were his health problems? Dorian Yates is my favorite bodybuilder, I have his book and follow him on Facebook, but I hadn’t heard of these problems. I do know he faced a lot of injuries during his career, but it doesn’t sound like that’s what’s you’re referring to. Also, in all fairness, muscle loss is attributable to much more than just getting off of steroids. Being on a less strict diet, a less intense workout regimen, growing older, hell, even just stopping with the oil and fake tanning and flexing poses is going to make you look a lot less muscular. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bodybuilders-after-60-will-juicing-really-be-that-bad-for-you-after-60/631291/45 "2012-08-15T17:28:32Z")
> [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](#): > > **x-ray vision** , did you ever take a look at the link I posted? Because if you’re asking for evidence, that’s a whole gold mine of research on the subject. > > ETA: Here’s the link again: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dHlDWz\_u4c](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dHlDWz_u4c) I’ve watched that several times over the past few years as it’s very entertaining. It is NOT “a whole gold mine of research.” Chris Bell presents a very one-sided “documentary” while pretending to be neutral. I like how when John Romano tells him that not one person has died of steroids use, he pretends to be naive and says “Lyle Alzado”, when he of course he knows that can easily be refuted. Why not reply with “Andreas Münzer” or someone else that had their liver or kidneys destroyed or cardiomegaly? Why not bring up that causes of death on death certificates don’t have to say “steroids use” for steroids to be a primary or secondary cause of death or that people live with health issues and death shouldn’t be the goalpost of whether or not steroids use is “safe”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bodybuilders-after-60-will-juicing-really-be-that-bad-for-you-after-60/631291.md?page=2)