# Re: Bush -- If I didn't care about America, I'd be in a GREAT mood! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 15, 2005, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819 "2005-01-15T04:20:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819/21 "2005-01-15T17:56:02Z")
To be fair to myself, I thought I had an original and witty approach to the issue of Bush’s malfeasance. Also, I wanted to point up the range and variety of Bush’s blunders of late. It really does seem to me that what Bush has been up to in the last couple of months has been EXTRAORDINARILY awful, by U.S. standards. Can you imagine the lengthy, intensity and duration of the howls of outrage from the right if Clinton had done any single one of the things I’ve listed? Good god, look how excited they got over a blowjob! Imagine if Clinton authorized torture! The howling from the right would be so loud, sustained and high-pitched that it would break every last window in America! ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819/22 "2005-01-15T18:13:13Z")
Well, of course. See, if a Democratic president authorized torture, it could only be the desperate, lawless act of a self-interested hypocrite, whereas for the current one, he is simply taking an unfortunate but necessary step to protect us from the horrors of terrorism. I mean, he’s thought real, real hard about it, and asked the Lord for advice before acting. We really ought to lay off the guy. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819/23 "2005-01-15T18:28:56Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > It looks like someome is still awfully sore at losing the elections. Is it just now sinking in, **EC**? Maybe now that the Inauguration is only a few days away, it’s finally getting through your skull? Better late than never, I suppose. > > I predict a spate of these silly and pointless ‘BUSH IS TEH SUX!’ threads over the coming days (Well, more than usual. It’s not like they ever dried up), as the news finally trickles into some our slower citizens that yes, George W Bush is going to be president for the next 4 years. Yeah, and Nixon was re-elected in a fucking landslide. But eventually what he did caught up with him. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819/24 "2005-01-15T18:38:54Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > On the other side, though, not one word of criticism of his policies or actions is permissible. I would kiss Cecil’s left big toe if I saw one post from **Mr Moto** or **Brutus** that said, in effect, “I still support GWB, and think he’s doing a good job – but he definitely fucked up on that particular issue.” Well, I did criticize Bush on steel protectionism and the Armstrong Williams payout. I defended Teresa Heinz Kerry from unfair attacks here and elsewhere, and I have good things to say about Democrats when I do agree with them. I’ll happily provide cites for the above. But most folks here know I’m not a mindless rightist bot, your assertions notwithstanding. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819/25 "2005-01-15T19:00:47Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Well, I did criticize Bush on steel protectionism and the Armstrong Williams payout. I defended Teresa Heinz Kerry from unfair attacks here and elsewhere, and I have good things to say about Democrats when I do agree with them. > > I’ll happily provide cites for the above. But most folks here know I’m not a mindless rightist bot, your assertions notwithstanding. Not making any such assertion, and I can recall complimenting you on being a thoughtful conservative in a non-Bush thread a while ago. The point was that _I had not seen_ you criticizing Mr. Bush, and it didn’t seem likely you would, based on your postings of late. I’m happy to have been proven wrong. (I’d welcome seeing the cites you mentioned in the first paragraph, for my reading interest, but you need not prove anything with them; I trust the integrity of your saying so.) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819/26 "2005-01-16T04:15:00Z")
Fair enough. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819/27 "2005-01-16T05:39:27Z")
[I called steel protectionism an untenable political position here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4822113&postcount=6) [I stated my opposition to the Armstrong Williams payout here, albeit in a lighthearted way.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5696843&postcount=60) [I defend Teresa Heinz Kerry here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5054556&postcount=4) Posted not for you, **Polycarp** , but for other posters who might be curious. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819/28 "2005-01-16T06:05:28Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > [I called steel protectionism an untenable political position here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4822113&postcount=6) > > [I stated my opposition to the Armstrong Williams payout here, albeit in a lighthearted way.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5696843&postcount=60) > > [I defend Teresa Heinz Kerry here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5054556&postcount=4) > > Posted not for you, **Polycarp** , but for other posters who might be curious. I remember your defense of Teresa Heinz Kerry, with fond respect, and in fact have cited it to friends who’ve criticized her. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819/29 "2005-01-16T06:28:28Z")
Of course, some of us regard it as merely at attempt to curry favor, in hope of leniency after the Revolution. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819/30 "2005-01-16T06:33:17Z")
Now, **luci** , let’s not discourage the more educable, trainable among them from hoping to gain a quick release from the reeducation camps. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819/31 "2005-01-16T06:33:32Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > No, **El Kabong** , as a thoughtful Democrat and American, I’d have to say that my problem here is not merely that a man I feel to be incompetent is in the White House for another four years. It’s the idea I get from the majority of his supporters that the right to criticize the incumbent ended four years ago next Thursday. > > I found a lot of Bill Clinton’s ideas quite palatable – and thought he made some major mistakes. And I was quite able to say so, without getting bashed for it. There were even a few Republicans who thought one or two of his policies worth endorsing. > > But somewhere between November 2000 and January 20, 2001, the right to criticize the incumbent honestly and forthrightly on the basis of his policies went down the tubes. For an overwhelming majority of the liberals, he’s evil incarnate. And while he’s a megalomaniac clown IMO, he’s definitely a **well-intentioned** megalomaniac clown, again IMO. > > On the other side, though, not one word of criticism of his policies or actions is permissible. I would kiss Cecil’s left big toe if I saw one post from **Mr Moto** or **Brutus** that said, in effect, “I still support GWB, and think he’s doing a good job – but he definitely fucked up on that particular issue.” > > And right there is the problem – there is no room for reasoned discourse between the sides. Battle lines have been drawn, and what formerly was the space for discourse between opposing parties has become No Man’s Land, with minefields laid by both sides. Well said, Sir. Speaking strictly for myself I’m not aware of how things were around here during the Clinton years, so my frame of reference is formed out of what I have noted on a first hand basis. I’m not opposed to criticism of Mr. Bush. I am opposed to a multitude of threads which all say essentially the same thing, started by the same people, posted to by the same people, over and over, ad nauseam. As long as I’ve been around these parts, the man can’t do _anything_ correct in the eyes of the usual suspects, and after a while, I tire of the continual baying of the hounds. Without question, Mr. Bush has made mistakes, and I’m not about to allege that his presidency is flawless. That said, there are some people on this board who make Bush-bashing a full time work as **Turek** observed. The only reasoned discourse among dopers to which I’ve been privy is when we’re face to face. Conversation with other dopers over a few cold beers has led to the realization that we’ve got more about which we agree than was known, even though our parties of registry are different. Beyond that, even though we might disagree about other issues, we don’t stoop to the tactics used online, as in Repugs, Bushco, Shrub, and other infantile frames of reference. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819/32 "2005-01-16T06:48:40Z")
When he stops doing things worthy of my contempt, I’ll stop ranking on him. Jsut today, he uncorked a doozy, a genuine humdinger, when he claimed that the recent election validated his Iraq policy… > [@](#): > > …and that there was no reason to hold any administration officials accountable for mistakes or misjudgments in prewar planning or managing the violent aftermath. This does for _chutzpah_ what Stonehenge does for rocks. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819/33 "2005-01-16T07:34:42Z")
> [@](#): > > …and that there was no reason to hold any administration officials accountable for mistakes or misjudgments in prewar planning or managing the violent aftermath. What mistakes? What misjudgments in planning? What misjudgments in managing the aftermath? _Violent_ aftermath? What violent aftermath? “Freedom is on the march!” (Cue Mormon Tabernacle Choir: “Truth is marching, truth is marching…” ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819/34 "2005-01-16T07:53:57Z")
Yes, it’s very commonplace to have elections where the candidates are so fearful for their lives they’re [campaigning as anonymous numbers](http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1015882,00.html) on the ballot: > [@](#): > > Three weeks from the scheduled election, most Iraqis don’t even know the names of the candidates – who are so afraid of being murdered that they refuse to be identified. … Voters are urged, for instance, to pick List No. 169, the one approved by the umbrageous Grand Ayatullah Ali Husaini Sistani. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819/35 "2005-01-16T11:57:25Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > When he stops doing things worthy of my contempt, I’ll stop ranking on him. When you and your ilk stop being one trick ponies, perhaps we can begin to demilitarize the battleground so well identified by brother **Polycarp**. The choice is yours. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819/36 "2005-01-16T14:54:32Z")
Look, over there, just off the road…is that a herd of ilk? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819/37 "2005-01-16T15:28:11Z")
Re posts #24-27: **Cecil** , may I request that you visit this thread – **barefoot**? It seems I have a duty to perform here… :o ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819/38 "2005-01-16T15:28:31Z")
That was pretty funny **danceswithcats**. It takes a _special_ kind of person to use a plea for peace, love and understanding as a weapon with which to attack their opponents. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819/39 "2005-01-16T16:31:54Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Jsut today, he uncorked a doozy, a genuine humdinger, when he claimed that the recent election validated his Iraq policy/ The best part was his declaring it to have been his “accountability moment”. Good, now _that_’s out of the way for another four years. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819/40 "2005-01-16T17:43:15Z")
What’s wrong with this picture? If someone really believes what they are doing, have any sense of honor, any backbone at all, he/she will stand by what they do and they WILL accept responsibility and accountability. > [@](#): > > …no reason to hold any administration officials accountable for mistakes or misjudgments… It was the administration’s mistakes and misjudgements. They made the decisions, they must have the guts to accept the results and take ownership. Anything less is cowardly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819.md?page=3)