# Re: Bush -- If I didn't care about America, I'd be in a GREAT mood! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 15, 2005, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819 "2005-01-15T04:20:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819/41 "2005-01-16T18:14:06Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > When you and your ilk stop being one trick ponies, perhaps we can begin to demilitarize the battleground so well identified by brother Polycarp. The choice is yours. Silence from the other side is what spurns on the “one trick ponies”. As long as Bush supporters refrain from publically denouncing or defending, in an intelligent way, the administration’s policies, no substantive debate will be had. If you’re tired of the ranting, step up. Educate yourself on Bush’s policies and intelligently defend them. Try to convince the rest of us why we shouldn’t be angry “one trick ponies”. Right now, you come across as a blind, uneducated defender. If you don’t care to criticize the president and you don’t care to try persuade us with potentially convincing arguments, then don’t complain when the only stuff you hear on these boards is something you don’t agree with. The choice is **yours**. ---
**Author:** ![PinkMarabou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@PinkMarabou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PinkMarabou)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819/42 "2005-01-16T19:33:57Z")
Why do the ‘Defenders of our Great Leader’ go into every thread like this and complain that people are constantly saying bad things about their good ol’ buddy Dubya? Why does it matter how many threads we open criticizing possibly the worst American President in years? If you don’t like all these threads, why do you respond? Why do you come into these threads? I paid my $14.95 to belong here as did most of those you are complaining about. If you don’t like these threads, stay the hell out of them. Concerning our ‘Fearless (mis)Leader’, hasn’t it occured to you that defending everything the man does only proves he’s a horrible President? I had a friend once who did a lot of shitty things, and my husband and I had to defend him all the time. Eventually it caused so much trouble and we had to come to terms that he was just not a good person and we had to cut ties with him. How much will it take to get through to you people? You have to defend EVERYTHING he does, everything. Doesn’t that tell you something? He’s just not a good person, and not good for this country. His recent poll numbers prove it, he’s the owner of one of the lowest approval ratings before a second Inauguration. He won by the smallest margin in history. There is no ‘mandate’ and no mission has been accomplished. Quit being so goddamned smug. Wake the hell up and look around you. Those on the left, we are scared. Scared that the America we know is turning into a distant memory. The Bush Administration has done a lot of things I’m afraid will take many, many years to reverse. We are frustrated at the BLATANT hypocrisy of all of you. Those who were crying that if Clinton lied about a blowjob, what else would he lie about. What has Bush lied about that we don’t know about yet? I don’t like his train of thought, I despise his ideas. I think he’s setting our country up for many years of terrorist attacks and the ultimate fall as a superpower. We are so frustrated that many of you don’t see this, and this is just a place where we can vent. If you don’t like it, stay out. Break this cycle on the right, you don’t have to be a hypocrite because all your friends and politicians are doing it. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819/43 "2005-01-16T23:00:37Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > As long as I’ve been around these parts, the man can’t do _anything_ correct in the eyes of the usual suspects, and after a while, I tire of the continual baying of the hounds. Well, to a lot of us, the guy _hasn’t_ done anything correct. I’m not a huge political wonk, but I can’t think of a single policy decision he’s made that I agree with. Sure, for a lot of them, that disagreement stems from differing politics. I don’t expect Bush to do much to defend a woman’s right to choose, and while I’m not happy when he does something to try to erode those rights, I’m not shocked or outraged. But there have been so many things done by Bush or by his administration that go well beyond partisan politics that simply scare the fuck out of me. It’s one thing when you all defend the partial birth abortion ban, or the tax refund. That’s politics. But so many Republicans are willing to defend indefinite internment camps in Guantanmo, or try to minimize Abu Ghraib, or turn a blind eye to the Valerie Palme affair, I have to wonder exactly what the hell is wrong with you lot. How can you look at these actions, and still think that Bush is in any way good for this country, or that he supports the ideals on which it was founded? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2005, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819/44 "2005-01-17T03:30:13Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > But so many Republicans are willing to defend indefinite internment camps in Guantanmo, or try to minimize Abu Ghraib, or turn a blind eye to the Valerie Palme affair, I have to wonder exactly what the hell is wrong with you lot. How can you look at these actions, and still think that Bush is in any way good for this country, or that he supports the ideals on which it was founded? The same way people turned a blind eye toward Auschwitz, Buchenwald, Lebensraum and Krystalnacht. Germany had the burning of the Reichstag, we had 9/11. Both believed leaders who said “I will protect you”. Both started to believe in preemptive strikes against countries because their leader said they might be a potential threat some day. Both had some poorly defined set of government sanctioned “values”. Both had a strong distrust of foreigners and outsiders. Both had a group of scapegoats all lined up. There are way too many parallels. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2005, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819/45 "2005-01-17T03:49:54Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > The same way people turned a blind eye toward Auschwitz, Buchenwald, Lebensraum and Krystalnacht. Germany had the burning of the Reichstag, we had 9/11. Both believed leaders who said “I will protect you”. Both started to believe in preemptive strikes against countries because their leader said they might be a potential threat some day. Both had some poorly defined set of government sanctioned “values”. Both had a strong distrust of foreigners and outsiders. Both had a group of scapegoats all lined up. There are way too many parallels. Well, Godwin’s Law strikes again – but with a difference this time. That’s an interesting set of parallels. I’d very much like to see a conservative rise above the temptation to simply take offense at them, and do what he can to refute them. Because they are a scary set of parallels. Of course, [it can’t happen here](http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/l/lewis/sinclair/happen/). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2005, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819/46 "2005-01-17T04:04:37Z")
No, they aren’t. Hitler was a monster of charisma, he had an awesome amount of evil _gravitas_, and was a hypnotic orator. You can feel the negative energy in the old filmclips, even without understanding a word of German: the inflection, the gestures, the sheer evil power of his personality. He was hard-bitten combat veteran and a vicious anti-Semite, burdened with a pathological hatred. GeeDubya is an amiable mediocrity, with no more charisma than cottage cheese. A spellbinding orator, he is not, _gravitas_, he ain’t got. And though the victim of any number of unrecognized prejudgements, an anti-Semite he is not. George Bush, like most of us, probably believes himself entirely free of bias. The Wiemar Republic was a pathological decade, more or less. 9/11 provoked a psychotic episode in America, we have yet to recover. But I don’t think the level of sheer madness that stained those years in Germany are truly reflected in the America of the Bushivik Regime. We’re kinda nuts, right now, but we’re nowhere _near_ that nuts. Trouble is, we are the most powerful nation in human history, so we don’t have to be very nuts at all for it to have ghastly consequences for the weak and powerless. And we are not sufficiently mindful of the responsibility that confers. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2005, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819/47 "2005-01-17T04:06:23Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Of course, [it can’t happen here](http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/l/lewis/sinclair/happen/). The abridged version:[it can and it’s happening.](http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0501/S00063.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2005, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819/48 "2005-01-17T14:49:20Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > The abridged version:[it can and it’s happening.](http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0501/S00063.htm) For **Red** ’s clarification: [Review, with brief plotline, of the Lewis novel](http://www.motherbird.com/Can'tHap.htm). [A useful bit of vocabulary.](http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=irony) ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2005, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819/49 "2005-01-17T16:55:00Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > That was pretty funny **danceswithcats**. It takes a _special_ kind of person to use a plea for peace, love and understanding as a weapon with which to attack their opponents. What I think a lot of conservative types are doing (I’m talking the people, not the pundits), is the same thing I was finding myself doing throughout the nineties. I would spend a lot of the time circling the wagons against the critics of my chosen candidate. I even found myself defending policies I didn’t initially support, just because Rush and the ditto-heads were attacking them. This is why I generally choose not to participate in a lot of the “Bush Sucks!” threads. I prefer to discuss politics with my friends face-to-face. Besides, even if I don’t like most of his politics, **Mr. Moto** is still a good guy. He introduced me to a wonderful (if French) gin. That goes a good, long way to building good will right there. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2005, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819/50 "2005-01-17T17:00:32Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Well, Godwin’s Law strikes again – but with a difference this time. That’s an interesting set of parallels. Just what is Godwin’s law? I see it being referred to sometimes, but have no clue what it says. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2005, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819/51 "2005-01-17T17:03:43Z")
> **[Godwin's law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law)** > > Godwin's law, short for Godwin's law (or rule) of Nazi analogies, is an Internet adage asserting that as an online discussion grows longer (regardless of topic or scope), the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Adolf Hitler approaches 1. In less mathematical terms, the longer the discussion, the more likely a Nazi comparison becomes, and with long enough discussions, it is a certainty. > Promulgated by the American attorney and author Mike Godwin in 1990, Godwin's law originally refer... > [@](#): > > Godwin’s law (also Godwin’s rule of Nazi analogies) is an adage in Internet culture that was originated by Mike Godwin in 1990. The law states that: > > As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one. > There is a tradition in many Usenet newsgroups that once such a comparison is made, the thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. In addition, whoever points out that Godwin’s law applies to the thread is also considered to have “lost” the battle, as it is considered poor form to invoke the law explicitly. Godwin’s law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. Many people understand Godwin’s law to mean this, although (as is clear from the statement of the law above) this is not the original formulation. Click the link for more codicils and exceptions. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2005, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819/52 "2005-01-17T17:07:00Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > For **Red** ’s clarification: > > [Review, with brief plotline, of the Lewis novel](http://www.motherbird.com/Can'tHap.htm). [A useful bit of vocabulary.](http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=irony) Understood your point the first time, **Poly**. Just using the opening you provided to link to that article. BTW, from your first link: > [@](#): > > IT CAN’T HAPPEN HERE was issued in a new edition in 1993. **At the moment, there seems less chance of the current equivalents of Lewis’s villains gaining dictatorial power in this country than there was a few years ago, because the economy has improved** - but the equivalents are still there on the sidelines, waiting for the next big economic down turn to try for power. (my bolding) 9/11 changed everything – it’s now 51% of the US against the world. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-bush-if-i-didnt-care-about-america-id-be-in-a-great-mood/284819.md?page=2)