# Re convenience robbery on video and handgun bullets that seem to have no effect **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 12, 2011, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-convenience-robbery-on-video-and-handgun-bullets-that-seem-to-have-no-effect/599414 "2011-10-12T11:30:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-convenience-robbery-on-video-and-handgun-bullets-that-seem-to-have-no-effect/599414/1 "2011-10-12T11:30:11Z")
In this robbery [Story here](http://www.click2houston.com/news/29426782/detail.html) [Interior store video here](http://video.foxnews.com/v/1210227843001/shootout-at-texas-gas-station-caught-on-tape/?playlist_id=86856&intcmp=sem_outloud&intcmp=obnetwork) One robber takes two bullets in the arm and the other gets shot in the chest and they simply scamper away. I guess I thought modern bullets would do more damage if they hit you. What kind of ammo are the clerks using that lets the thieves shrug off getting shot? ---
**Author:** ![ecseas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ecseas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ecseas)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-convenience-robbery-on-video-and-handgun-bullets-that-seem-to-have-no-effect/599414/2 "2011-10-12T11:33:02Z")
I didn’t see the video or the story, but I’d assume drugs are involved, something like ice or angel dust. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-convenience-robbery-on-video-and-handgun-bullets-that-seem-to-have-no-effect/599414/3 "2011-10-12T11:51:41Z")
I didn’t see it reported that anyone got shot in the chest, just that the robber who was caught shortly afterwards was shot twice in the arm. Or did I miss something? I’d imagine that with the adrenaline, getting shot twice in the arm with a small caliber gun wouldn’t immediately put someone on the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-convenience-robbery-on-video-and-handgun-bullets-that-seem-to-have-no-effect/599414/4 "2011-10-12T15:20:05Z")
Nothing in the story mentions anyone shot in the chest, but small caliber bullets in the arm hurt like hell but aren’t going to slow you down much when you’re running away. I was working at an apartment complex where we had a shooting on a playground. Someone got mad at someone else while playing dice and shot him in the gut with a .32. By the time I got there the shooter was gone and the victim was walking around saying, “I got shot. Ouch, this hurts”. I waited with him until EMS and the police got there. He was in shock, but he was fully mobile and barely bleeding. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-convenience-robbery-on-video-and-handgun-bullets-that-seem-to-have-no-effect/599414/5 "2011-10-12T16:00:26Z")
Most people are gun-ignorant, so they may think a gun is a gun and get a 22 because it’s cheaper. If you didn’t hit a bone, joint or artery in the arm with a 22, it might just make a .22" hole in and out without major blood loss or even incapacitation. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-convenience-robbery-on-video-and-handgun-bullets-that-seem-to-have-no-effect/599414/6 "2011-10-12T17:39:52Z")
Also keep in mind that handguns don’t have “stopping power” like you see in the movies and tv. IOW, a robber isn’t going to get knocked off his feet by a .44 Magnum or any other handgun for the same reason you won’t get knocked over when you fire it. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-convenience-robbery-on-video-and-handgun-bullets-that-seem-to-have-no-effect/599414/7 "2011-10-12T17:46:37Z")
I’m no expert but the pistols I saw used in that video looked very small to me, so I assumed .22’s or fairly small caliber. True story, happened a month ago, the mother of a friend of mine. (That sounds so phony, but true.) Mom lives in the ghetto, basically. So a fight broke out between two large groups of teenagers a block away from her house. One young man was shot. He ran, along with a friend of his, about a block, scaled the 6-foot privacy fence and collapsed in the mom’s back yard. His friend called 911 at that point. The young man who’d been shot died right there - he had been shot in the leg and his femoral artery was ruptured, so he bled out and was declared dead on the scene. An awful thing. (My friend’s mom slept through the whole thing and only work up when police came to her door and the street was lit up with emergency vehicles.) ---
**Author:** ![Grestarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grestarian/32/3227_2.png) [@Grestarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grestarian)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-convenience-robbery-on-video-and-handgun-bullets-that-seem-to-have-no-effect/599414/8 "2011-10-14T00:20:15Z")
It’s been ages since I’ve perused the UseNet “rec.guns” groups, but I recall a thread which claimed to be historical: US Military was doing bullet tests to determine out which bullets/pistols/rifles to use because Charlie wasn’t dropping dead like he was supposed to. Skipping the details, the basic conclusion was that Westerners dropped and died quickly because they’d seen The Bad Guy(s) do that in the cowboy action films and TV war shows. On the other hand, the pigs they were shooting would just get up, squeal and try to run away because they’d never watched that Hollywood crap. Apparently neither had Charlie. Something about translation problems, language, culture…I dunno. The veracity of that historical thread is anybody’s guess (take it to another thread). The core message that Hollywood hyperexaggerates the effect and effectiveness of bullets is still valid. People die instantly from gunshot wounds to the toe because it makes a good story and a neat special effect or stunt. Heroes thrive after multiple blasts to the left eye because it shows how awesome they are. —G! “Gimme back—gimme back my Bullets!” –Lynrd Skynrd ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-convenience-robbery-on-video-and-handgun-bullets-that-seem-to-have-no-effect/599414/9 "2011-10-14T00:59:29Z")
> [@astro](#): > > In this robbery > > [Story here](http://www.click2houston.com/news/29426782/detail.html) > > [Interior store video here](http://video.foxnews.com/v/1210227843001/shootout-at-texas-gas-station-caught-on-tape/?playlist_id=86856&intcmp=sem_outloud&intcmp=obnetwork) > > One robber takes two bullets in the arm and the other gets shot in the chest and they simply scamper away. I guess I thought modern bullets would do more damage if they hit you. What kind of ammo are the clerks using that lets the thieves shrug off getting shot? Reality-based ammo? Bullets don’t do what Hollywood wants you to think they do. A handgun bullet makes a hole the same size as the bullet, which is why hollowpoints are nice - they make bigger holes as the bullet expands. But even so, barring a central nervous system hit, being shot doesn’t mean you’re going to stop what you’re doing. Dr Vincent DiMaio, in his book _Gunshot Wounds_, recounts a case where a man had his heart literally shredded by 7-1/2 birdshot from a 12 ga shotgun at a range of 3-4 feet. The guy ran 65 feet before collapsing and dying. The [1986 Miami shootout](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout) is a classic case of handgun bullets failing to put someone down, when despite repeated hits from FBI guns Michael Platt was able to kill 2 FBI agents and wound 4 others. From the Wikipedia article: > [@](#): > > As Platt climbed out of the passenger side car window, one of Dove’s 9 mm rounds hit his right upper arm and went on to penetrate his chest, stopping an inch away from his heart. The autopsy found Platt’s right lung was collapsed and his chest cavity contained 1.3 liters of blood, suggesting damage to the main blood vessels of the right lung. Of his many gunshot wounds, this first was the primary injury responsible for Platt’s eventual death.[10] The car had come to a stop against a parked vehicle, and Platt had to climb across the hood of this vehicle, a Cutlass. As he did so, he was shot a second and third time, in the right thigh and left foot. The shots were believed to have been fired by Dove.[11] > > Platt took up position by the passenger side front fender of the Cutlass. He fired a .357 Magnum revolver at agents Ronald Risner and Gilbert Orrantia, and was shot a fourth time when turning to fire at Hanlon, Dove and Grogan. The bullet, fired by Risner or Orrantia, penetrated Platt’s right forearm, fractured the radius bone and exited the forearm. This wound caused Platt to drop his revolver.[12] It is estimated that Platt was shot a fifth time shortly afterwards, this time by Risner. The bullet penetrated Platt’s right upper arm, exited below the armpit and entered his torso, stopping below his shoulder blade. The wound was not serious.[13] > > Platt fired one round from his Mini-14 at Risner and Orrantia’s position, wounding Orrantia with shrapnel created by the bullet’s passage, and two rounds at McNeill. One round hit McNeill in the neck, causing him to collapse and leaving him paralyzed for several hours. Platt then apparently positioned the Mini-14 against his shoulder using his uninjured left hand.[14] > > Dove’s 9 mm pistol was rendered inoperative after being hit by one of Platt’s bullets. Hanlon fired at Platt and was shot in the hand while reloading. Platt aggressively advanced on Grogan and Dove’s car, which they were using as cover. Reaching their position, he continued firing. Platt killed Grogan with a shot to the chest, shot Hanlon in the groin area and then killed Dove with two shots to the head. Platt then entered the Grogan/Dove car in an apparent attempt to flee the scene.[15] As Platt entered Grogan and Dove’s car, Mireles, able to use only one arm, fired the first of five rounds from his pump-action shotgun, wounding Platt in both feet.[7] At an unknown time, Matix had regained consciousness and he joined Platt in the car, entering via the passenger door. Mireles fired four more rounds at Platt and Matix, but hit neither.[16] Platt was finally stopped by a point blank shot that severed his spinal cord. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-convenience-robbery-on-video-and-handgun-bullets-that-seem-to-have-no-effect/599414/10 "2011-10-14T04:17:17Z")
> [@Patch](#): > > The [1986 Miami shootout](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout) is a classic case of handgun bullets failing to put someone down, when despite repeated hits from FBI guns Michael Platt was able to kill 2 FBI agents and wound 4 others. From the Wikipedia article: > > \ > > Platt was finally stopped by a point blank shot that severed his spinal cord. Moral of the story: Use the heaviest bullet available in your caliber; all that energy transfer stuff with high velocity handgun rounds that gun writers talk about is complete BS. You want the round that’s going to penetrate deeply and expand, but penetrate over expanding. Had Dove fired a 147 grain 9mm hollowpoint instead of the 115 grain hollowpoint, he’d have actually hit Platt in the heart instead of having the round stop an inch early. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-convenience-robbery-on-video-and-handgun-bullets-that-seem-to-have-no-effect/599414/11 "2011-10-14T04:47:35Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Had Dove fired a 147 grain 9mm hollowpoint instead of the 115 grain hollowpoint, he’d have actually hit Platt in the heart instead of having the round stop an inch early. I’ve always wondered, in this context, what does “grain” mean? I assume it’s something to do with gunpowder? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-convenience-robbery-on-video-and-handgun-bullets-that-seem-to-have-no-effect/599414/12 "2011-10-14T04:49:26Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’ve always wondered, in this context, what does “grain” mean? I assume it’s something to do with gunpowder? The bullet’s weight is given in [grains.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grain_%28unit%29)