# Re "Dune" is the book's Baron Harkonnen as grotesque as the movie version? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 18, 2012, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-dune-is-the-books-baron-harkonnen-as-grotesque-as-the-movie-version/641377 "2012-11-18T05:18:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-dune-is-the-books-baron-harkonnen-as-grotesque-as-the-movie-version/641377/1 "2012-11-18T05:18:59Z")
[Lynch’s movie Baron](http://www.salon.com/2012/11/12/cinemas_11_most_memorable_lgbt_villains/) was pretty over the top in grotesqueness. Was the books Baron Harkonnen just as bad? > [@](#): > > Dune’s" boil-covered, sadistic ogre, played by Kenneth McMillan, would growl, “Bring me that young fellow we bought …with the lovely eyes. Drug him well. I don’t feel like wrestling.” In David Lynch’s 1984 film adaption of Frank Herbert’s novel, Baron is known for raping his beautiful male slaves, smothering them with his fat — and then eating them. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-dune-is-the-books-baron-harkonnen-as-grotesque-as-the-movie-version/641377/2 "2012-11-18T06:24:45Z")
The first good description of the Baron in the book is as follows: > [@](#): > > The Baron moved out and away from the globe of Arrakis. As he emerged from the shadows, his figure took on dimension – grossly and immensely fat. And with subtle bulges beneath folds of his dark robes to reveal that all this fat was sustained partly by portable suspensors harnessed to his flesh. He might weigh two hundred Standard kilos in actuality, but his feet would carry no more than fifty of them So he was probably fatter than was depicted in the movie, but less…boil-y. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-dune-is-the-books-baron-harkonnen-as-grotesque-as-the-movie-version/641377/3 "2012-11-18T07:09:13Z")
IIRC his sex slaves were also somewhat younger in the book than they were onscreen. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-dune-is-the-books-baron-harkonnen-as-grotesque-as-the-movie-version/641377/4 "2012-11-18T07:19:18Z")
He’s basically an exceptionally venal and corrupt Renaissance-era noble; not, however, something from a horror movie. ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-dune-is-the-books-baron-harkonnen-as-grotesque-as-the-movie-version/641377/5 "2012-11-18T13:58:47Z")
There was also, as I recall, no indication in the book that he was on rubber bands. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-dune-is-the-books-baron-harkonnen-as-grotesque-as-the-movie-version/641377/6 "2012-11-18T14:39:04Z")
> [@](#): > > “Bring me that young fellow we bought …with the lovely eyes. Drug him well. I don’t feel like wrestling.” I’m pretty sure that’s a direct quote from the book. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-dune-is-the-books-baron-harkonnen-as-grotesque-as-the-movie-version/641377/7 "2012-11-18T14:49:50Z")
He’s definitely a pedophile. In Frank Herbert’ 1963 point of view, that was horrifying enough. He didn’t feel the need to attribute additional atrocities to him. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-dune-is-the-books-baron-harkonnen-as-grotesque-as-the-movie-version/641377/8 "2012-11-18T14:56:14Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > He’s definitely a pedophile. In Frank Herbert’ 1963 point of view, that was horrifying enough. He didn’t feel the need to attribute additional atrocities to him. He’d pull out their heart plug and let them bleed out while molesting them. That’s even worse than the pedophilia. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-dune-is-the-books-baron-harkonnen-as-grotesque-as-the-movie-version/641377/9 "2012-11-18T15:15:22Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > He’d pull out their heart plug and let them bleed out while molesting them. That’s even worse than the pedophilia. That is from the movie. No heart plugs in the books. Just a man with a sadistic sexual appetite. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-dune-is-the-books-baron-harkonnen-as-grotesque-as-the-movie-version/641377/10 "2012-11-18T15:17:22Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > That is from the movie. No heart plugs in the books. Just a man with a sadistic sexual appetite. Are you sure? He didn’t kill his young victims? I hate that movie. I read the original book multiple times and thought I had the whole thing memorized, but now the movie has screwed up my memories. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-dune-is-the-books-baron-harkonnen-as-grotesque-as-the-movie-version/641377/11 "2012-11-18T15:47:58Z")
He killed one ganymede who’d been boobytrapped with a poison needle, but I don’t remember indications that was Baron’s usual practice. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-dune-is-the-books-baron-harkonnen-as-grotesque-as-the-movie-version/641377/12 "2012-11-18T16:01:43Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Are you sure? He didn’t kill his young victims? Sure, but just not always and not that way – anyone at the service of the Harkonnen was totally disposable. A particularly pleasant toyboy he may keep around for a while but he may be doomed in the end, almost as likely by others in the entourage who may grow jealous or wary. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-dune-is-the-books-baron-harkonnen-as-grotesque-as-the-movie-version/641377/13 "2012-11-18T18:32:24Z")
The Baron for sure killed his young lovers, but the heart plug concept is strictly from the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-dune-is-the-books-baron-harkonnen-as-grotesque-as-the-movie-version/641377/14 "2012-11-18T19:31:36Z")
In the book he punishes his nephew by making him strangle all of his favorite harem girls. That always stuck in my mind as encapsulating the character’s callousness and inhumanity. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-dune-is-the-books-baron-harkonnen-as-grotesque-as-the-movie-version/641377/15 "2012-11-18T19:56:46Z")
The Baron was a sadistic pedophile. Paul kicked off a galaxy-spanning jihad that killed, most likely, billions. That’s one of the things I admire about the original saga. It is refreshingly free of good guys. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-dune-is-the-books-baron-harkonnen-as-grotesque-as-the-movie-version/641377/16 "2012-11-18T22:38:57Z")
> [@astro](#): > > …In David Lynch’s 1984 film adaption of Frank Herbert’s novel, Baron is known for raping his beautiful male slaves, smothering them with his fat — and then eating them… Raping, sure. But “smothering them with his fat — and then eating them”? Not in the movie that I remember. A question about the Baron: When, if ever, did he learn that he was Lady Jessica’s father? When, if ever, did she learn it? And did Duke Leto or Paul ever know? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-dune-is-the-books-baron-harkonnen-as-grotesque-as-the-movie-version/641377/17 "2012-11-18T22:45:56Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Raping, sure. But “smothering them with his fat — and then eating them”? Not in the movie that I remember. > > A question about the Baron: > > When, if ever, did he learn that he was Lady Jessica’s father? When, if ever, did she learn it? And did Duke Leto or Paul ever know? Response to spoiler… I think the point when he found out was when Alia killed him. She addressed him as “Grandfather”. Leto never knew but Paul did…he saw it when he had his first prescient glimpse while they were escaping the Arrakeen massacre in the ornithopter. I don’t know if Jessica knew before Paul claimed the Harkonnen holdings by birthright of Jessica’s paternity when he defeated Shaddam. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-dune-is-the-books-baron-harkonnen-as-grotesque-as-the-movie-version/641377/18 "2012-11-19T12:53:29Z")
I hated that they made the Baron an insane shouter with terminal acne. And we could easily get that the Harkonnens were a family without giving them all the same outfits and ridiculous colored hair. Baron Harkonnen was supposed to be a calm, Machiavellian plotter with disgusting tastes and habits. As others have noted, the heart plugs weren’t in the book, although I could see the book’s Baron doing that. But there was no need to externalize his evil by giving him a Pizza Face, or having him take a dirty oil bath. Have a look at the SciFi channel’s version. They did The Baron (and a lot of other things) much better. (Although the Lynch film has a lot to recommend it) Also, have a look at my old thread **Dune…the Musical** [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=167075&highlight=Dune+Musical](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=167075&highlight=Dune+Musical) ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-dune-is-the-books-baron-harkonnen-as-grotesque-as-the-movie-version/641377/19 "2012-11-19T13:27:04Z")
Further response to spoiler: [spoiler]Not got the book handy but as I remember Paul forces Jessica to recognise her parentage when they are linked together after he has changed the Water of Life. I’ll check when I’m home![/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-dune-is-the-books-baron-harkonnen-as-grotesque-as-the-movie-version/641377/20 "2012-11-19T13:42:10Z")
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