# Re Feminism & "slut-shaming" isn't slut-shaming mainly done by females to other females? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 13, 2014, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043 "2014-04-13T21:53:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/21 "2014-04-14T00:32:56Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > How about when a popular radio personality calls a female law student who testifies about the importance of access to birth control “a slut”? > > [Rush Limbaugh: Sandra Fluke, Woman Denied Right To Speak At Contraception Hearing, A 'Slut' | HuffPost Latest News](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/29/rush-limbaugh-sandra-fluke-slut_n_1311640.html) > > You don’t think that reflects a pervasive attitude today? It is slut shaming. It’s not the casual type the OP is talking about, it’s the very serious type where used to rebut her rational arguments with slurs. It’s also not a pervasive attitude. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/22 "2014-04-14T00:35:33Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > How about when a popular radio personality calls a female law student who testifies about the importance of access to birth control “a slut”? > > [Rush Limbaugh: Sandra Fluke, Woman Denied Right To Speak At Contraception Hearing, A 'Slut' | HuffPost Latest News](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/29/rush-limbaugh-sandra-fluke-slut_n_1311640.html) > > You don’t think that reflects a pervasive attitude today? Considering[the number of advertisers](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/rush-limbaugh-advertisers) that left after he spewed his ignorance I’d say “no”. It was probably the biggest body blow he ever experienced. If anything it showed the opposite, that modern society will not tolerate that kind of hate and misogyny. > [@](#): > > On Tuesday, Dickey continued the pattern. Asked about Limbaugh during an earnings call, he said, “The facts are indisputable regarding the impact certain things have had on ad dollars.” > > Then, trade site Radio Ink quoted a “very high ranking Cumulus official,” who said, “Forty-eight of the top 50 network advertisers have ‘excluded Rush and Hannity’ orders. Every major national ad agency has the same dictate.” This statement was in line with other reports about the ad market’s hostility towards Limbaugh. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/23 "2014-04-14T00:37:39Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > It is slut shaming. It’s not the casual type the OP is talking about, it’s the very serious type where used to rebut her rational arguments with slurs. It’s also not a pervasive attitude. It sure seemed to resonate with his audience, a particular slice of society. It wasn’t just refuting her argument, his argument was that women want BC so they can sleep around. The same thing happened to Wendy Davis when she fought for the right to choose, she was branded a whore by extremist political activists. This does reflect a segment of our society. > [@astro](#): > > Considering the number of advertisers that left after he spewed his ignorance I’d say “no”. It was probably the biggest body blow he ever experienced. If anything it showed the opposite, that modern society will not tolerate that kind of hate and misogyny. Yes, happily it’s not everybody. But it’s not some minor segment either. You didn’t ask if everybody felt this way, but if it exists in some meaningful way. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/24 "2014-04-14T00:46:12Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > It sure seemed to resonate with his audience, a particular slice of society. It wasn’t just refuting her argument, his argument was that women want BC so they can sleep around. > > The same thing happened to Wendy Davis when she fought for the right to choose, she was branded a whore by extremist political activists. This does reflect a segment of our society. Even it did resonate with his audience, which is questionable, that does not make it a pervasive attitude. Rush Limbaugh’s continued use of the same kind of rhetoric doesn’t make it pervasive either. Wendy Davic being branded a whore by extremists also does not indicate the attitude is pervasive. What is pervasive among extremists is by definition not pervasive among the mainstream, otherwise it wouldn’t be extremist. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/25 "2014-04-14T00:50:38Z")
> [@astro](#): > > The notion of slut shaming in the articles I’ve seen on the topic seemed (to me) to be addressing something that adult men (not adolescents) are communicating and saying out loud on a regular basis to the extent it is culturally pervasive in 2014 and constitutes a form of patriarchal oppression. If it’s not talking socially with their male **and female peers or SO’s** (and I don’t have access to their private conversations with their SO’s if that’s where it’s happening) how is this control and oppression being expressed? (Emphasis added.) I’m not the one who’s excluding things that men say to women. The quote above is the first time in this thread that you’ve acknowledged the possibility that a man might make a slut-shaming comment _to a woman_ rather than to a male buddy. > [@](#): > > Real world in 2014 how are American men slut-shaming American women today? I’d be a lot more inclined to answer this question if I believed you were asking in good faith. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/26 "2014-04-14T01:15:08Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > (Emphasis added.) > > I’m not the one who’s excluding things that men say to women. The quote above is the first time in this thread that you’ve acknowledged the possibility that a man might make a slut-shaming comment _to a woman_ rather than to a male buddy. > > I’d be a lot more inclined to answer this question if I believed you were asking in good faith. See post 14. > [@](#): > > In the context of the complaint put forward by the articles I’m talking about “slut shaming” as an open social conversation that men will purportedly have with other **men or women** where women are shamed for having multiple partners or dressing provocatively. It’s those conversations I’m not seeing or hearing with any frequency. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/27 "2014-04-14T01:41:25Z")
I’ve always considered slut shaming to be pretty specifically defined as: 1. Woman expresses sexuality, or is perceived as expressing sexuality (has sex, dresses provocatively, manages her reproductive health, processes female body parts, etc.) 2. Something bad, or at least notable happens to woman 3. Woman is blamed for what happened Just calling a woman slutty isn’t awesome, but that’s not really what people mean when they talk about slut shaming. That said, it’s not surprising that women are often just as or even more sexist than men. One aspect of a sexist society is that women become reliant on men for basic security. Women who have placed their bets on the basic “sex for security” situation are threatened by independent women who offer sex without those strings, potentially undercutting the artificial scarcity that these women rely on. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/28 "2014-04-14T01:43:26Z")
> [@astro](#): > > See post 14. I did miss a key word in that post, so that’s my mistake. Post 14 does nothing to convince me that you’re asking about this topic in good faith, though. Why did you really start this thread? Your OP sure sounds like the work of someone whose mind is already made up (“In the real world that I live in 99% of any accusations of sluttiness or similar epithets are generated by females”) and not a sincere request for more information. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/29 "2014-04-14T01:49:02Z")
Slut-shaming seems also to be popular among a certain brand of mostly-male Republican politicians and talk show mouths. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/30 "2014-04-14T03:01:22Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Why did you really start this thread? Your OP sure sounds like the work of someone whose mind is already made up (“In the real world that I live in 99% of any accusations of sluttiness or similar epithets are generated by females”) and not a sincere request for more information. I generally think it’s a bit over the top when somebody swoops in to bring up some long-remembered prior post from another poster, but in this case it really needs to be pointed out. This is a cat who has started, among others obviously, the following threads – and these are just the ones showing up as the results of a single crack at the shitty SDMB search engine: Does female virginity really have any true sacredness or social importance anymore? Are US sexual mores really “provincial” compared to Europe or is this US bashing? Is female sluttiness in Canada, UK or AU conceptualized the same way it is in the US? Young teenage girls advertise raunchy sexual messages - Has the neo-porn era begun? Re female college students hooking to pay tuition expenses. BS or not? Men are very wary of 20 and 30 something female virgins - Is it with good reason? Why are mature, modern women more ambivalent about one night stand sex than men? Ie “slut shaming” more a verb or a noun? Ladies if you don’t want your private T&A pics to wind up online stop taking and sending them! Why are sluts so hated and reviled by other women? Is it unethical for a single young woman to trade sex for services? Suggestion that women moderate drinking to avoid getting assaulted met with extreme outrage - Why? Re Feminism & “slut-shaming” isn’t slut-shaming mainly done by females to other females? If he’s still requesting more information about the topic of “what do people think about some ladies who have some sex, or not,” it’s probably not because there’s something one of us is going to say that he hasn’t heard before. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/31 "2014-04-14T03:28:44Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I’ve always considered slut shaming to be pretty specifically defined as: > > 1. Woman expresses sexuality, or is perceived as expressing sexuality (has sex, dresses provocatively, manages her reproductive health, processes female body parts, etc.) > 2. Something bad, or at least notable happens to woman > 3. Woman is blamed for what happened > > Just calling a woman slutty isn’t awesome, but that’s not really what people mean when they talk about slut shaming. > > That said, it’s not surprising that women are often just as or even more sexist than men. One aspect of a sexist society is that women become reliant on men for basic security. Women who have placed their bets on the basic “sex for security” situation are threatened by independent women who offer sex without those strings, potentially undercutting the artificial scarcity that these women rely on. Thank you, that first bit was also how I had understood the slut-shaming notion all along. By extension it also encompasses the notion of the traits in #1 being seen as “doing that/being that way is putting others women at risk”. ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/32 "2014-04-14T04:00:55Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > I generally think it’s a bit over the top when somebody swoops in to bring up some long-remembered prior post from another poster, but in this case it really needs to be pointed out. This is a cat who has started, among others obviously, the following threads – and these are just the ones showing up as the results of a single crack at the shitty SDMB search engine: > […] > If he’s still requesting more information about the topic of “what do people think about some ladies who have some sex, or not,” it’s probably not because there’s something one of us is going to say that he hasn’t heard before. Okay, first of all A) There are new people who find us through Google _all the time_. What if some of them might have new opinions about “some ladies who have some sex, or not”? Huh? Didja think about them or not? Or do you just not care? And second B) Do you really think it wise that there be a means of keeping track of posters’ ongoing posting-revealed skeeviness? I mean, it’s not like someone such as **etv78** has created a thread wherein he gets “lady dopers” to post anecdotes about bra-sizing is it? And thirdly … _\_ Gotta go. Bye. Oh, one last thing. **FXMasterMind** ---
**Author:** ![Double\_Foolscap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85e7bf/32.png) [@Double\_Foolscap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Double_Foolscap)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/33 "2014-04-14T10:25:01Z")
I used to hold the same view as **astro** , but then I found out that I just knew classy folks. Sadly, I then met some people who weren’t, of both sexes. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/34 "2014-04-14T11:42:37Z")
No, it’s not just a female-on-female thing (though women are, IME, more likely to be critical of other women’s provocative clothing than men are), but it’s also definitely not just a male-on-female thing. It’s also not _just_ a women-hating thing, as some people (like the link in the OP) would have you believe. Fact is that - for cultural, religious, or moral reasons - a _lot_ of people of both genders look down on “slutty” behavior in people of both genders. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/35 "2014-04-14T13:30:52Z")
> [@astro](#): > > To be frank I’m just not seeing it in my interactions with single men. That’s funny, because a while ago [you started a thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=689970)that dang near broke my “slut shaming” meter. Slut shaming occurs when women are blamed for the offenses of men whenever these women deviate from puritanical standards of “good” lady-like conduct. Calling women stupid for trusting their SO’s not to violate their privacy very neatly matches this definition. So does blaming women for being raped because of what they wear or who they flirted with. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/36 "2014-04-14T13:36:04Z")
> [@jimbuff314](#): > > Okay, first of all A) There are new people who find us through Google _all the time_. What if some of them might have new opinions about “some ladies who have some sex, or not”? > Huh? Didja think about them or not? Or do you just not care? I thought about them, and then decided fuck those people. Just kidding. If I found this thread on google and was going to sign up to answer the “questions” posed in the OP, I’d want to know in advance – i.e. before the thread stretched to 500 posts of pseudo-debate with people who are not the OP but were drawn to the thread by the inflammatory topic – that I was just shouting down the well by trying to answer them. Wouldn’t you? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/37 "2014-04-14T13:47:51Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I’ve always considered slut shaming to be pretty specifically defined as: > > 1. Woman expresses sexuality, or is perceived as expressing sexuality (has sex, dresses provocatively, manages her reproductive health, processes female body parts, etc.) > 2. Something bad, or at least notable happens to woman > 3. Woman is blamed for what happened > > Just calling a woman slutty isn’t awesome, but that’s not really what people mean when they talk about slut shaming. This was how I thought the term was defined initially. I don’t count an offhand remark like “She’s such a slut” to be slut shaming when it might just mean “I wish I had shoes like that”. But the term has been used with increasing frequency of late, and in political arguments to boot, so I’m not surprised that it’s taking on a broader meaning to some. Unfortunately that trivializes serious forms of slut shaming. ---
**Author:** ![ThisUsernameIsForbidden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ThisUsernameIsForbidden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisUsernameIsForbidden)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/38 "2014-04-14T14:04:58Z")
It should be called “slut-ostracizing”. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/39 "2014-04-14T15:34:15Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Is there someplace in this nation where adult single men are heavily involved in “slut shaming”? Is there someplace in this nation where “slut-shaming” is not an almost wholly female on female interaction? Here, have [an hour](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWKipaNH83E) of it. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/40 "2014-04-14T15:44:09Z")
It is in both men’s and women’s interests to have female promiscuity be a shameful thing. For men it is good for men in relationships because it makes it harder for women to cheat. However, it is bad for men because it makes it harder to get laid outside of a relationship. For women it is good for women in relationships because it makes it harder for men to cheat. For women not in relationships it is good since most of the cost of pregancy is born by the woman and STDs impact a woman’s fertility in ways they don’t to men. Of course it is bad for women because it makes it harder to get laid outside of a relationship. Because of the incentives, we would expect most of the shaming to be done by women. If you look at the the [research](http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/11/the-evolution-of-bitchiness/281657/), [studies](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/19/science/a-cold-war-fought-by-women.html?ref=science&_r=2&)back this up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043.md?page=3)