# Re Feminism & "slut-shaming" isn't slut-shaming mainly done by females to other females? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 13, 2014, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043 "2014-04-13T21:53:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/41 "2014-04-15T00:01:27Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > I thought about them, and then decided fuck those people. > > Just kidding. If I found this thread on google and was going to sign up to answer the “questions” posed in the OP, I’d want to know in advance – i.e. before the thread stretched to 500 posts of pseudo-debate with people who are not the OP but were drawn to the thread by the inflammatory topic – that I was just shouting down the well by trying to answer them. Wouldn’t you? I apologize that I did not make the first half of my post sufficiently funny that the humor was readily apparent. I will work on that in the future. Totally agree with the purpose of your list. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/42 "2014-04-15T00:18:32Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Re slut shaming > > I see these articles [“It’s not ‘slut-shaming’, it’s woman hating”](http://feministcurrent.com/6845/its-not-slut-shaming-its-woman-hating/) and similar ones re slut shaming and I have to ask myself the last time in real life I have ever heard a single dating man talk about a woman’s sluttiness or sexual mores relative to her fitness as an SO because she (like him) has had multiple sexual partners. In these discussions from a feminist perspective men are generally portrayed as using slut-shaming as some kind of whip hand over women’s behavior and sexual expression. > > In the real world that I live in 99% of any accusations of sluttiness or similar epithets are generated by females and are usually directed at other females in the vast majority of cases. Men are very minor players in this. > > Is there someplace in this nation where adult single men are heavily involved in “slut shaming”? Is there someplace in this nation where “slut-shaming” is not an almost wholly female on female interaction? Probably. On the other hand, men who sleep around - especially if they don’t call the next morning - are universally adored by feminists. Amiright? ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/43 "2014-04-15T04:13:23Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Because of the incentives, we would expect most of the shaming to be done by women. If you look at the the [research](http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/11/the-evolution-of-bitchiness/281657/), [studies](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/19/science/a-cold-war-fought-by-women.html?ref=science&_r=2&)back this up. Yep. Sluts ruin the status quo for the rest of the women in competition for male attention. Either that behavior has to be discouraged or they have to find ways to make their offer of less sex more attractive somehow, which involves effort. The female ideal would be low sex with high male investment, the male ideal is high sex with low investment. The sluts seem to have won, for now. Funny how men can thank feminism for all that easy sex. In my experience men’s slut shaming behavior increases as they get older, especially if they have daughters. They’ll openly criticize scantily clad women in media as being scandalous; when they were younger they’d be hooting and hollering. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/44 "2014-04-15T06:40:58Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Yep. Sluts ruin the status quo for the rest of the women in competition for male attention. Either that behavior has to be discouraged or they have to find ways to make their offer of less sex more attractive somehow, which involves effort. The female ideal would be low sex with high male investment, the male ideal is high sex with low investment. The sluts seem to have won, for now. Funny how men can thank feminism for all that easy sex. > > In my experience men’s slut shaming behavior increases as they get older, especially if they have daughters. They’ll openly criticize scantily clad women in media as being scandalous; when they were younger they’d be hooting and hollering. Those studies are fascinating and correlate with my observations how these interactions play out in the real world. > [@](#): > > even sven said - > > I’ve always considered slut shaming to be pretty specifically defined as: > > 1. Woman expresses sexuality, or is perceived as expressing sexuality (has sex, dresses provocatively, manages her reproductive health, processes female body parts, etc.) > 2. Something bad, or at least notable happens to woman > 3. Woman is blamed for what happened > > Just calling a woman slutty isn’t awesome, but that’s not really what people mean when they talk about slut shaming. Per your parameters above if were going to make the standard for “slut shaming” _any_ criticism of _any_ personal sexual behavior by a woman that results in a negative or “notable” consequence then IMO the envelope has been stretched so far that the definition becomes almost meaningless. If (for example) a woman (or man) engages in risky sexual behavior and catches an STD is it “slut shaming” to be critical of the choices or risky behaviors or lack of precautions that caused that to happen? If a woman catches herpes because of unprotected sex with a one night stand, is it slut shaming to tell her she made a risky and stupid decision? ---
**Author:** ![MostlyClueless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@MostlyClueless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MostlyClueless)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/45 "2014-04-15T08:36:33Z")
As I sit here, having lunch with my (male) co-workers, they are vocally criticising one of them for going out with a woman they refer to using the expression “afgelikte boterham” (slobbered-over bread), indicating that her alleged sexual exploits make her a less worthwhile partner. One of them prides himself on at least trying to get laid by a different woman each weekend. This is a common occurence. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/46 "2014-04-15T09:28:30Z")
If you want to get all evo-psyche about it, young women prefer to compete with each other for the sperm of the alpha male rather than mate with some schlub. Schlubs’ libidos function just as keenly as alpha males, so they want to squirt into as many women as possible. But they find the available women on that level are those with low self-esteem, substance abusers, naive, etc. So, as pointed out already, women resent the easy lays as reducing their own bargaining power. Men resent them as an offshoot of their own self-loathing. IMHO, even though it’s all about status either way, men’s slut-shaming is worse because it comes from someplace darker. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/47 "2014-04-15T10:32:48Z")
> [@astro](#): > > If (for example) a woman (or man) engages in risky sexual behavior and catches an STD is it “slut shaming” to be critical of the choices or risky behaviors or lack of precautions that caused that to happen? If a woman catches herpes because of unprotected sex with a one night stand, is it slut shaming to tell her she made a risky and stupid decision? Actually, yeah, I have no interest in shaming people suffering from medical conditions. I would like people to have access to preventative care and treatment, and that’s about it. If a friend caught herpes from a one night stand, I’d offer sympathy and a ride to the clinic, just like I would if she caught the flu. I mean, do you lecture people with cold sores on how risky and stupid it is to share drinking glasses? ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/48 "2014-04-15T18:07:43Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Yep. Sluts ruin the status quo for the rest of the women in competition for male attention. Either that behavior has to be discouraged or they have to find ways to make their offer of less sex more attractive somehow, which involves effort. The female ideal would be low sex with high male investment, the male ideal is high sex with low investment. The sluts seem to have won, for now. Funny how men can thank feminism for all that easy sex. > > In my experience men’s slut shaming behavior increases as they get older, especially if they have daughters. They’ll openly criticize scantily clad women in media as being scandalous; when they were younger they’d be hooting and hollering. Sex is like currency. If some women are giving it away cheaply, that lowers it’s value for all women. ---
**Author:** ![Sehmket](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Sehmket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sehmket)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/49 "2014-04-15T21:12:33Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > Sex is like currency. If some women are giving it away cheaply, that lowers it’s value for all women. … is it? If we’re going to go with economic metaphors, maybe it’s like the economy, wherein the more activity there is, the more total value is brought to the system. Or maybe it’s like currency in that it only has as much value as one imbues onto it, and has no intrinsic set value on its own, and said value is highly variable based on outside influences. This adage is really at the heart of what slut shaming IS. That there is some sort of “value” to women’s sexuality, and that said value is somehow different than men’s, and that women who have different backgrounds and life histories have different values for their sexuality. What makes this slut-shaming (as opposed to sex-shaming) is that this “value” is not only entirely imbued upon the women, but the job of protecting the economy of this value is also given to the women. The men don’t have the the same value, nor is it their job to protect the value (This displays in ways such as, in the case of a man-on-woman assault, a commentator saying she shouldn’t have been wearing that outfit, rather than saying that guy shouldn’t have done that - the protection of the value fell to the woman, not the man.). Perhaps instead of saying sex has a certain value across society, we should consider treating sex as its own thing, and each sex partner and act as its own situation worthy of individual thought and consideration in its own context. Unfortunately, that doesn’t make for very good adages. ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/50 "2014-04-15T21:30:51Z")
Dang, Poindexter - do you know where the sluts we’re shamin’ hang out or not??? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/51 "2014-04-16T00:52:57Z")
> [@Rodgers01](#): > > No, it’s not just a female-on-female thing (though women are, IME, more likely to be critical of other women’s provocative clothing than men are), but it’s also definitely not just a male-on-female thing. I don’t agree - in my experience women are more likely to look at fuck me heels and say “cute shoes” while men look at it as an invitation and then get all pissy when it turns out the invitation wasn’t for THEM. Most women have, at some time or another, themselves dressed up like a cheap (or expensive) Vegas hooker for fun. But I’m older and most women my age seem to have outgrown cattiness. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/52 "2014-04-16T03:51:39Z")
> [@Sehmket](#): > > … is it? > > If we’re going to go with economic metaphors, maybe it’s like the economy, wherein the more activity there is, the more total value is brought to the system. Or maybe it’s like currency in that it only has as much value as one imbues onto it, and has no intrinsic set value on its own, and said value is highly variable based on outside influences. > > This adage is really at the heart of what slut shaming IS. That there is some sort of “value” to women’s sexuality, and that said value is somehow different than men’s, and that women who have different backgrounds and life histories have different values for their sexuality. What makes this slut-shaming (as opposed to sex-shaming) is that this “value” is not only entirely imbued upon the women, but the job of protecting the economy of this value is also given to the women. The men don’t have the the same value, nor is it their job to protect the value (This displays in ways such as, in the case of a man-on-woman assault, a commentator saying she shouldn’t have been wearing that outfit, rather than saying that guy shouldn’t have done that - the protection of the value fell to the woman, not the man.). > > Perhaps instead of saying sex has a certain value across society, we should consider treating sex as its own thing, and each sex partner and act as its own situation worthy of individual thought and consideration in its own context. Unfortunately, that doesn’t make for very good adages. Men have no sexual currency, so there’s nothing for them to devalue. Shame, though, since there’s there’s so many of them who’d be fine getting called sluts, if it meant getting laid whenever they wanted. Strange how the world works. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/53 "2014-04-16T09:30:13Z")
Girls are labeled “sluts,” boys “faggots.” I think might have learned other things in junior high, but those two lessons I remember as the point of my being sent there. ---
**Author:** ![Sehmket](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Sehmket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sehmket)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/54 "2014-04-16T16:08:13Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > Men have no sexual currency, so there’s nothing for them to devalue. Shame, though, since there’s there’s so many of them who’d be fine getting called sluts, if it meant getting laid whenever they wanted. Strange how the world works. Well, that’s kind of the heart of the question there… Why is this the case? And further, is it an appropriate way to behave as a society, and why or why not? There’s several evo-psych answers to the question (Men spreading seed, women wanting the strongest seed), some feminist answers (because patriarchy!), and some religious answers (The bible said so!). I feel they all fall a little short. The truth of the matter is probably infused with all of these answers, and others I’m not thinking of, and boils down to a long, long history of society. What we need to confront is weather we want this to continue to be the case, and if it’s ok. It’s not enough to say “This is the way it is” and move on. IMHO, it’s not enough to say “Oh, well, strange how the world works…” and move on. Why do so many guys feel this way? And do they actually feel this way? What harm does it do to both men and women to assume this is the way the world works? What repercussions does this have? How would the world be different if it didn’t work this way (assuming it does)? Is that better than what we have now? How and why? ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/55 "2014-04-17T03:15:55Z")
> [@Sehmket](#): > > Well, that’s kind of the heart of the question there… Why is this the case? And further, is it an appropriate way to behave as a society, and why or why not? > > There’s several evo-psych answers to the question (Men spreading seed, women wanting the strongest seed), some feminist answers (because patriarchy!), and some religious answers (The bible said so!). I feel they all fall a little short. The truth of the matter is probably infused with all of these answers, and others I’m not thinking of, and boils down to a long, long history of society. What we need to confront is weather we want this to continue to be the case, and if it’s ok. It’s not enough to say “This is the way it is” and move on. > > IMHO, it’s not enough to say “Oh, well, strange how the world works…” and move on. Why do so many guys feel this way? And do they actually feel this way? What harm does it do to both men and women to assume this is the way the world works? What repercussions does this have? How would the world be different if it didn’t work this way (assuming it does)? Is that better than what we have now? How and why? Why do so many guys feel what way? The reason things are the way they are is that contraception and modern medicine are new. In most of human history, giving birth was life-threatening, and taking care of yourself, and a baby, by yourself, was difficult or impossible. When we were hunter-gatherers, being pregnant slowed you down. And then after child-birth, there was a helpless infant to take care of. Either the rest of the group picked up the slack for you, or you didn’t make it. So women had a choice to make: they could promiscuous, and run the risk of being abandoned when they needed help the most; or they could maintain their virtue, at least until they found someone who showed both a willingness and the ability to help when the help was needed. The rest of the group (tribe, family, whatever) had a stake in it too, because they were the ones who’d have to pick up the slack if she made the wrong choice. And when food is scarce, or there are enemies or predators around, the wrong choice could have life or death consequences for everyone. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/56 "2014-04-17T09:33:46Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > Why do so many guys feel what way? > > The reason things are the way they are is that contraception and modern medicine are new. In most of human history, giving birth was life-threatening, and taking care of yourself, and a baby, by yourself, was difficult or impossible. > > When we were hunter-gatherers, being pregnant slowed you down. And then after child-birth, there was a helpless infant to take care of. Either the rest of the group picked up the slack for you, or you didn’t make it. > > So women had a choice to make: they could promiscuous, and run the risk of being abandoned when they needed help the most; or they could maintain their virtue, at least until they found someone who showed both a willingness and the ability to help when the help was needed. > > The rest of the group (tribe, family, whatever) had a stake in it too, because they were the ones who’d have to pick up the slack if she made the wrong choice. And when food is scarce, or there are enemies or predators around, the wrong choice could have life or death consequences for everyone. Except, really, it seems to be wrong (or cherry picking). Because from the news and articles I’ve read, it seems some of the most “primitive” hunter-gathering societies still around are ones who least concern themselves with that sort of thing. Probably because they understand that, even with a partner, the baby and baby’s mother would need all the help possible, so either way, all the group helps in raising all the kids born, and babies are not singled out or separated because the mother didn’t have a proper partner. It seems to be more agricultural societies (and those with inheritance laws/customs) where the notion of controlling a woman’s sexuality (by restrain or by calling her names and ostracizing her) is more developed. And currently, anyways, we’re not in a firmly agricultural society either, so we do not have to keep those customs either. And lastly, and I think this is a point Sehkmet was trying to make… just because it is exists, doesn’t mean it have to exist and continue to be done. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/57 "2014-04-17T14:12:59Z")
> [@KarlGrenze](#): > > Except, really, it seems to be wrong (or cherry picking). Because from the news and articles I’ve read, it seems some of the most “primitive” hunter-gathering societies still around are ones who least concern themselves with that sort of thing. Probably because they understand that, even with a partner, the baby and baby’s mother would need all the help possible, so either way, all the group helps in raising all the kids born, and babies are not singled out or separated because the mother didn’t have a proper partner. > > It seems to be more agricultural societies (and those with inheritance laws/customs) where the notion of controlling a woman’s sexuality (by restrain or by calling her names and ostracizing her) is more developed. > > And currently, anyways, we’re not in a firmly agricultural society either, so we do not have to keep those customs either. > > And lastly, and I think this is a point Sehkmet was trying to make… just because it is exists, doesn’t mean it have to exist and continue to be done. It is still useful as cartel behavior. If you are a young girl and you want to be able to date a variety of young men so you can find the right man to marry and settle down with. However, if you become pregnant you will either end up with a traumatic event like and abortion or adoption or a baby. If you have a baby it will make your life much more difficult. You could also end up with an STD which could significantly affect your health or ability to have kids. There is also research that having more partners leads to substance abuse in women. Thus it is better for young girls if there is a prohibition against premarital sex. However, it is better for each young girl to violate the prohibition because that will give them access to better boyfriends. This causes other young girls to loosen their morals to compete. Thus there are two equilibrium, one where no one engages in risky behavior and everyone still gets to have a boyfriend, and one in which only those who engage in risky behavior get to have a boyfriend. If you are a young girl or a relative of one then the first equilibrium is preferable. Thus social pressure is useful. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/58 "2014-04-17T15:36:35Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > There is also research that having more partners leads to substance abuse in women. I don’t think this is correct. There’s evidence that the two are linked, but not that the one causes the other. That’s a very different thing in the context of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Sehmket](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Sehmket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sehmket)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/59 "2014-04-17T16:57:12Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > It is still useful as cartel behavior. If you are a young girl and you want to be able to date a variety of young men so you can find the right man to marry and settle down with. However, if you become pregnant you will either end up with a traumatic event like and abortion or adoption or a baby. If you have a baby it will make your life much more difficult. You could also end up with an STD which could significantly affect your health or ability to have kids. There is also research that having more partners leads to substance abuse in women. > Thus it is better for young girls if there is a prohibition against premarital sex. However, it is better for each young girl to violate the prohibition because that will give them access to better boyfriends. This causes other young girls to loosen their morals to compete. Thus there are two equilibrium, one where no one engages in risky behavior and everyone still gets to have a boyfriend, and one in which only those who engage in risky behavior get to have a boyfriend. If you are a young girl or a relative of one then the first equilibrium is preferable. Thus social pressure is useful. I think this is only true if you take any possibility of safe sex out of the equation. Condoms drastically reduce these risks, and significantly change the calculations here. I mean, don’t get me wrong, teenagers are plenty capable of being stupid, but what research DOES show is that in geographic areas where teens are taught safe sex techniques and given access to birth control, condoms, and counseling services, the rates of unintended pregnancy and STI transmission is significantly lower than in geographic areas where this is not the case. Also, regarding your study saying women who have more partners are more prone to substance abuse… that’s the sort of study I’d want to take a look at before accepting. A conclusion like that really leaps out at me as a situation where there could be significant correlative issues (socio-economic status, for starters), as well as significant cohort differences. Also, many, MANY sociological and anthropological studies have major issues, as reported in the popular media. In one of those “Great coincidences of the world” type of things, the below article showed up on my feed today. It discusses some of the ways in which living in a “slut-shaming” culture huts men, too. [http://playboysfw.kinja.com/bros-this-is-how-your-slut-shaming-is-backfiring-a-se-1563665480](http://playboysfw.kinja.com/bros-this-is-how-your-slut-shaming-is-backfiring-a-se-1563665480) ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043/60 "2014-04-17T18:05:24Z")
> [@astro](#): > > I think we need to distinguish the use of the word “slut” if it is used to shame a woman for her dress or sexual behavior in order to control her which is what (I assume) “slut-shaming” refers to vs some angry jerk calling a woman a “slut” or a “bitch” as a scatter shot pejorative insult because she refuses to sleep with him or go out with him. They are kind of 180 degrees apart. One “slut” is to shame a woman for being sexually active the other is to insult her for being sexually inactive and discriminating against his offer to be sexual. > > I’m talking specifically about accusing a women of being a “slut” because of the way she dresses or the fact that she has multiple sexual partners in order to directly or indirectly control her. I don’t hear single, adult guys doing that. > > On review what CarnalK said in many fewer words. I disagree, when a man does that reactive “slut” thing, he’s also implicitly trying to shame her for being sexually active, with other, presumably inferior men. It’s slut-shaming, and despicable. But women do it more, I suspect. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-feminism-slut-shaming-isnt-slut-shaming-mainly-done-by-females-to-other-females/686043.md?page=4)