# Re. "How do they grow more seedless fruit?" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [January 4, 2014, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-how-do-they-grow-more-seedless-fruit/677870 "2014-01-04T10:05:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![wreckage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f0a364/32.png) [@wreckage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wreckage)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2014, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-how-do-they-grow-more-seedless-fruit/677870/1 "2014-01-04T10:05:06Z")
Oh, Cecil. Yet again you disappoint me with your grammar. :smack: “…to the offspring of _ **us** _ humans…” ? Oh, dear. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2014, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-how-do-they-grow-more-seedless-fruit/677870/2 "2014-01-04T14:45:36Z")
First, a link to the column in question: [How do they grow more seedless fruit? - The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1075/how-do-they-grow-more-seedless-fruit) It’s helpful for the opening post of a thread to provide such a link, to save search time and (with luck) try to keep us on the same page. Second: I think the grammar is fine (and so’s the grampa). The preposition “of” takes the whatchacallit case, hence “offspring of us-humans.” ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2014, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-how-do-they-grow-more-seedless-fruit/677870/3 "2014-01-04T15:11:48Z")
I would change “more” to “additional” because fruit that is seedless cannot be made more seedless. But hey. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2014, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-how-do-they-grow-more-seedless-fruit/677870/4 "2014-01-04T15:17:03Z")
**Dex** , I believe the word you’re looking for is “accusative”. As in, the proposition “of” takes the accusative case. One might argue whether “us” ought to agree with “of” or “to”, but that takes the accusative, too. “To the offspring of we humans” is definitely and unambiguously wrong. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-how-do-they-grow-more-seedless-fruit/677870/5 "2014-01-05T02:51:33Z")
P’raps “to the offspring of wee humans.” ? ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-how-do-they-grow-more-seedless-fruit/677870/6 "2014-01-05T03:32:16Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > **Dex** , I believe the word you’re looking for is “accusative”. As in, the proposition “of” takes the accusative case. In English grammar, the word “objective” is generally preferred, because English has collapsed the accusative and dative cases into one. > [@Chronos](#): > > One might argue whether “us” ought to agree with “of” or “to”, but that takes the accusative, too. Absolutely, positively with “of”. > [@Chronos](#): > > “To the offspring of we humans” is definitely and unambiguously wrong. Yes. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-how-do-they-grow-more-seedless-fruit/677870/7 "2014-01-05T08:06:08Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > P’raps “to the offspring of wee humans.” ? We’re descended from Hobbits? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-how-do-they-grow-more-seedless-fruit/677870/8 "2014-01-05T15:21:05Z")
Simple test. Drop the “humans.” Which makes better sense? “To the offspring of us” or “To the offspring of we”? ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-how-do-they-grow-more-seedless-fruit/677870/9 "2014-01-05T16:01:43Z")
> [@wreckage](#): > > Oh, Cecil. Yet again you disappoint me with your grammar. :smack: > > “…to the offspring of _ **us** _ humans…” ? > > Oh, dear. when I encounter a puzzling grammar situation, I just rearrange or rephrase to avoid the question. “To our offspring” would seem to cover everything, unless, of course, we are not human. Some of the folks on this board love their dogs more than it might seem appropriate, preferring their company to that of children. And, if they bite a child, the child must have deserved it and will learn a lesson thereby. so…their offspring might, broadly speaking, include the puppies from their adopted family members. Why they would care about seedless fruits, I really don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-how-do-they-grow-more-seedless-fruit/677870/10 "2014-01-05T16:05:31Z")
I am reminded that 50 odd years ago, seed corn producers perfected a line of ‘sterile’ corn…it had no pollen, so could not pollenate the silks on its own stalk. The design was to allow the ‘bull rows’ to provide all the pollen needed, and, thus, make a progeny which, when planted during the next season, would yield higher bushels per acre than before. We asked the question, how do they produce the seeds for the ‘sterile’ corn, but never received an answer. BTW, I think this line led to the problem of the strain that took precedence in the corn producing states being susceptible to ergot, black smut type disease that ruined the corn crop one year all over the US. The seed corn producers scrambled around and again began producing seeds from plants that had to have their tassels removed. ---
**Author:** ![qazwart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/5fc32e/32.png) [@qazwart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qazwart)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-how-do-they-grow-more-seedless-fruit/677870/11 "2014-01-05T19:21:17Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > BTW, I think this line led to the problem of the strain that took precedence in the corn producing states being susceptible to ergot, black smut type disease that ruined the corn crop one year all over the US. The seed corn producers scrambled around and again began producing seeds from plants that had to have their tassels removed. One of the problems with producing the exact same genetic crop year after year for vast tracks of land is that it is susceptible to disease outbreaks. A virus, fungus, or bacterium that can attack one can attack the entire crop. This is what lead to the potato famine in Ireland. The same species of potato was planted all over Ireland, and it practically became the sole source of food. The blight wiped out the entire crop causing massive starvation. Of course, British policy didn’t help the situation. Bananas are now in a similar position. The Cavendish is under attack. Before the Cavendish, the Gros Michael was the main banana variety. It had a fragrant aroma and was much tastier than the Cavendish and even had a softer texture. The Gros Michael was hit by [Panama Disease](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/18/opinion/18iht-edkoeppel.1.13799953.html). It is still the preferred banana in Southeast Asia. However, that black smut on corn we think of as a terrible blight is highly prized in Mexico where it’s considered as [valuable as truffles](http://www.eattheweeds.com/corn-smut-mexican-truffles). ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-how-do-they-grow-more-seedless-fruit/677870/12 "2014-01-06T16:01:36Z")
> [@wreckage](#): > > Oh, Cecil. Yet again you disappoint me with your grammar. What do you propose? > [@kayaker](#): > > I would change “more” to “additional” because fruit that is seedless cannot be made more seedless. But hey. But that line was quoting “Just askin’”, the person who submitted the question. > [@crucible](#): > > when I encounter a puzzling grammar situation, I just rearrange or rephrase to avoid the question. > > “To our offspring” would seem to cover everything, unless, of course, we are not human. Cecil chose that phrasing to emphasize the human part, as juxtaposition for the seedless fruits in question.