# Re I'm the Mary & you're the Rhoda. Was Rhoda really all that unattractive? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 30, 2014, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-im-the-mary-youre-the-rhoda-was-rhoda-really-all-that-unattractive/697009 "2014-08-30T21:39:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2014, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-im-the-mary-youre-the-rhoda-was-rhoda-really-all-that-unattractive/697009/21 "2014-08-31T07:05:23Z")
> [@susan](#): > > I watched them when they were new shows, and I always thought Rhoda was the more attractive, both physically and in terms of her personality and story. This probably reflects my being from a Jewish family from New York, with an artist for a mother, in an environment in which all hip women wore colorful scarves and big hoop earrings. Nah, I watched them new too and always lusted after Rhoda. I can assure you I’m not from a Jewish family, not from New York by a long shot, and there were no artist types in our immediate family. ---
**Author:** ![C.Montgomery\_Burns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecd19e/32.png) [@C.Montgomery\_Burns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C.Montgomery_Burns)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2014, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-im-the-mary-youre-the-rhoda-was-rhoda-really-all-that-unattractive/697009/22 "2014-08-31T12:20:01Z")
I always thought Valerie Harper was very attractive. Even when they had her in sweats and stuff, I never bought that Rhoda was “Mary’s dumpy friend”. Now Phyllis- she was unattractive because she was a snooty jerk to everyone. No wonder Lars cheated on her! ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2014, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-im-the-mary-youre-the-rhoda-was-rhoda-really-all-that-unattractive/697009/23 "2014-08-31T12:43:10Z")
Man, that show sure did have a lot of spin offs. Rhoda, Phyllis, Lou Grant. Has anybody ever beat it for direct spin-offs? ---
**Author:** ![C.Montgomery\_Burns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecd19e/32.png) [@C.Montgomery\_Burns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C.Montgomery_Burns)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2014, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-im-the-mary-youre-the-rhoda-was-rhoda-really-all-that-unattractive/697009/24 "2014-08-31T13:23:39Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Man, that show sure did have a lot of spin offs. Rhoda, Phyllis, Lou Grant. > > Has anybody ever beat it for direct spin-offs? Maybe not direct spinoffs, but All In The Family had The Jeffersons and Maude. Maude had Good Times. The Jeffersons had the short lived Checkin’ In. Both of which are rare spinoffs of spinoffs. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2014, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-im-the-mary-youre-the-rhoda-was-rhoda-really-all-that-unattractive/697009/25 "2014-08-31T13:25:33Z")
Happy Days had Joannie Loves Chachi, Mork and Mindy, Laverne and Shirley, [Checks wiki], Blansky’s Beauty’s, Out Of The Blue, The Fonz and the Happy Day Gang. ---
**Author:** ![Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellis_Aponte_Jr)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2014, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-im-the-mary-youre-the-rhoda-was-rhoda-really-all-that-unattractive/697009/26 "2014-08-31T13:55:08Z")
It’s worth noting that although the Rhoda character is definitely Jewish, Valerie Harper is not. Her ancestry is “English, Irish, Scottish, Welsh, and French” and she was raised Catholic. She claims to have based the accent of Rhoda on a Jewish friend of hers. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Prize](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Sir\_Prize](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Prize)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2014, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-im-the-mary-youre-the-rhoda-was-rhoda-really-all-that-unattractive/697009/27 "2014-08-31T13:59:03Z")
> [@C.Montgomery\_Burns](#): > > Maybe not direct spinoffs, but All In The Family had The Jeffersons and Maude. Maude had Good Times. The Jeffersons had the short lived Checkin’ In. Both of which are rare spinoffs of spinoffs. I think Archie Bunker’s Place was technically a spin off. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2014, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-im-the-mary-youre-the-rhoda-was-rhoda-really-all-that-unattractive/697009/28 "2014-08-31T14:36:48Z")
> [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](#): > > It’s worth noting that although the Rhoda character is definitely Jewish, Valerie Harper is not. Her ancestry is “English, Irish, Scottish, Welsh, and French” and she was raised Catholic. She claims to have based the accent of Rhoda on a Jewish friend of hers. Rhoda never struck me as having a “Jewish” accent. “Lawnguyland”, sure, but not necessarily Jewish. But in Minneapolis, I can understand folks confusing the two. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2014, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-im-the-mary-youre-the-rhoda-was-rhoda-really-all-that-unattractive/697009/29 "2014-08-31T15:14:38Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > To some degree. But they actually did do an episode on that very topic in the first season: Mary hooked up with another beautiful WASP-type and quit spending time with Rhoda, until she realized her new friend was a bigot. One of the few “message” episodes in the series’ history. It was called “Some of My Best Friends are Rhoda.” Beautiful episode. The waspy friend was played by the actress who would play Bob Newhart’s wife on _Newhart_ (the Vermont one). > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Man, that show sure did have a lot of spin offs. Rhoda, Phyllis, Lou Grant. > > Has anybody ever beat it for direct spin-offs? _ **Law & Order** _: 1) _L&O: SUV_; 2)\* L&O: CI\*; 3) _L&O: LA_; 4)\* L&O: UK\*; 5)\* L&O: Trial by Jury.\* > [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > Rhoda never struck me as having a “Jewish” accent. “Lawnguyland”, sure, but not necessarily Jewish. But in Minneapolis, I can understand folks confusing the two. She seemed Jewish to me, and there were so few Jewish characters on TV (I say that like there are so many now). It was more than Rhoda being homely (which she wasn’t). She had a rain cloud following her around. Mary was perfect in every way, except for her terrible dinner parties. Nothing ever went quite right for Rhoda. She was a bit of a shnuek, and a shlamazel, words I really don’t know good English translations for. I never connected this with her being Jewish at the time, although apparently my mother did, and it also didn’t pass my mother’s notice that they “goyed her up” (my mother’s phrase) a bit for her own series. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2014, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-im-the-mary-youre-the-rhoda-was-rhoda-really-all-that-unattractive/697009/30 "2014-08-31T15:59:42Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Happy Days had Joannie Loves Chachi, Mork and Mindy, Laverne and Shirley, [Checks wiki], Blansky’s Beauty’s, Out Of The Blue, The Fonz and the Happy Day Gang. Three of those I never heard of; one of THOSE sounds like a Saturday morning cartoon show, and I’m kinda iffy on letting _Mork and Mindy_ count. But, yeah, it looks like the champ (ETA: but only if we’re specifying sitcoms, as **RivkahChaya** makes clear). ---
**Author:** ![7e42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/7/51bf81/32.png) [@7e42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/7e42)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-im-the-mary-youre-the-rhoda-was-rhoda-really-all-that-unattractive/697009/31 "2014-08-31T16:01:29Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Happy Days had Joannie Loves Chachi, Mork and Mindy, Laverne and Shirley, [Checks wiki], Blansky’s Beauty’s, Out Of The Blue, The Fonz and the Happy Day Gang. Blansky’s Beauties wasn’t a spinoff ---
**Author:** ![7e42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/7/51bf81/32.png) [@7e42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/7e42)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2014, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-im-the-mary-youre-the-rhoda-was-rhoda-really-all-that-unattractive/697009/32 "2014-08-31T16:02:54Z")
> [@Sir\_Prize](#): > > I think Archie Bunker’s Place was technically a spin off. Archie Bunker’s Place wasn’t a spinoff, the main character was still involved living in the same house. it was a continuation of the original under a new name ---
**Author:** ![7e42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/7/51bf81/32.png) [@7e42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/7e42)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2014, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-im-the-mary-youre-the-rhoda-was-rhoda-really-all-that-unattractive/697009/33 "2014-08-31T16:04:24Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Three of those I never heard of; one of THOSE sounds like a Saturday morning cartoon show, and I’m kinda iffy on letting _Mork and Mindy_ count. > > But, yeah, it looks like the champ (ETA: but only if we’re specifying sitcoms, as **RivkahChaya** makes clear). Mork and Mindy is a spinoff. Mork appeared on Happy Days in the spring of 78 and he got his own show in fall of 78 ’ Plus Fonzie appeared in the 1st episode of Mork and Mindy ---
**Author:** ![7e42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/7/51bf81/32.png) [@7e42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/7e42)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-im-the-mary-youre-the-rhoda-was-rhoda-really-all-that-unattractive/697009/34 "2014-08-31T16:06:09Z")
> [@C.Montgomery\_Burns](#): > > Maybe not direct spinoffs, but All In The Family had The Jeffersons and Maude. Maude had Good Times. The Jeffersons had the short lived Checkin’ In. Both of which are rare spinoffs of spinoffs. Good Times was a spinoff, it was a Norman Lear Comedy starring Esther Rolle ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-im-the-mary-youre-the-rhoda-was-rhoda-really-all-that-unattractive/697009/35 "2014-08-31T17:37:25Z")
> [@7e42](#): > > Mork and Mindy is a spinoff. Mork appeared on Happy Days in the spring of 78 and he got his own show in fall of 78 > ’ > Plus Fonzie appeared in the 1st episode of Mork and Mindy Actually, the “Mork” episode of _Happy Days_ just aired last night, and I put it on for my son (something else was supposed to be on), and I wouldn’t have voluntarily watched it, but I thought my 7-year-old might like it, and he thought it was hysterical. At the end, Mork gets his assignment to go live in, and study, 1970s America. So the ep. was actually a backdoor pilot. I don’t know if a backdoor pilot is quite the same thing as a spin-off, because Mork wasn’t a regular character on _Happy Days_. I’ll leave that to other people, though. I mean, I guess my L&Os aren’t really spin-offs either. They’re franchises, and some of them had backdoor pilots. It’s always funny when backdoor pilots that failed still linger in the reruns of a series, like the “Kelly’s Kids” episode of _The Brady Bunch_. ---
**Author:** ![7e42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/7/51bf81/32.png) [@7e42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/7e42)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2014, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-im-the-mary-youre-the-rhoda-was-rhoda-really-all-that-unattractive/697009/36 "2014-08-31T17:39:15Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Actually, the “Mork” episode of _Happy Days_ just aired last night, and I put it on for my son (something else was supposed to be on), and I wouldn’t have voluntarily watched it, but I thought my 7-year-old might like it, and he thought it was hysterical. At the end, Mork gets his assignment to go live in, and study, 1970s America. So the ep. was actually a backdoor pilot. > > I don’t know if a backdoor pilot is quite the same thing as a spin-off, because Mork wasn’t a regular character on _Happy Days_. I’ll leave that to other people, though. I mean, I guess my L&Os aren’t really spin-offs either. They’re franchises, and some of them had backdoor pilots. > > It’s always funny when backdoor pilots that failed still linger in the reruns of a series, like the “Kelly’s Kids” episode of _The Brady Bunch_. It was a backdoor pilot that lead to the spinoff which included the happy days house and fonzie ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2014, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-im-the-mary-youre-the-rhoda-was-rhoda-really-all-that-unattractive/697009/37 "2014-08-31T18:11:36Z")
When I was a kid, I has one hellava crush on Mary Tyler Moore. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-im-the-mary-youre-the-rhoda-was-rhoda-really-all-that-unattractive/697009/38 "2014-08-31T18:20:11Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Or the “Gary Seven” episode of ST:TOS.It’s always funny when backdoor pilots that failed still linger in the reruns of a series, like the “Kelly’s Kids” episode of _The Brady Bunch_. Or the “Gary Seven” episode of ST:TOS. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-im-the-mary-youre-the-rhoda-was-rhoda-really-all-that-unattractive/697009/39 "2014-08-31T18:54:19Z")
> [@7e42](#): > > It was a backdoor pilot that lead to the spinoff which included the happy days house and fonzie What does that mean? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-im-the-mary-youre-the-rhoda-was-rhoda-really-all-that-unattractive/697009/40 "2014-08-31T19:00:07Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > 3)She had different hair and clothes in the two shows. In DVD she had much more of a pin up look. Remember, she was an ex-dancer from the Allen Brady show (and IRL IIRC). I remember hearing an interview with Mary Tyler Moore once where she said she had it written into her contract that she could wear capri pants in at least one scene in each episode because, in her opinion, housewives don’t actually walk around in dresses all day like they had her (and Millie) doing. Nitpick: Laura danced once or twice on the Alan Brady Show over the course of the series, but it was never a regular thing. She was a former USO dancer, which is how she met Rob. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-im-the-mary-youre-the-rhoda-was-rhoda-really-all-that-unattractive/697009.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-im-the-mary-youre-the-rhoda-was-rhoda-really-all-that-unattractive/697009.md?page=3)