# Re: Jehovah's witnesses at the door **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [April 22, 2011, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-jehovahs-witnesses-at-the-door/579394 "2011-04-22T19:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-jehovahs-witnesses-at-the-door/579394/261 "2011-06-21T04:05:30Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > “A” for effort, but its not really my cup of yogurt. > > Throughout this thread you and **simster** have thrown what seems like dozens of issues on the wall----in many posts two, or three, or four _ **or more** _ issues in a single post. A MB doesn’t handle one topic very well, and when you seem unable----or unwilling to present a cohesive thought pattern it starts looking like an Rep. Weiner news conference----if I agreed to play. > > Like this one here that I’m responding to. You’re asking three completely different questions, and referring to three more. > > You’re all up in my grill. Yeah… I don’t get your hip chat here. Why don’t you solicit at college campuses? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-jehovahs-witnesses-at-the-door/579394/262 "2011-06-21T04:10:21Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > And to think you thought so highly of them at one time… At the risk of yet another game with you - what gives you that impression? ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-jehovahs-witnesses-at-the-door/579394/263 "2011-06-21T04:13:21Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > Yeah… I don’t get your hip chat here. > > Why don’t you solicit at college campuses? You don’t have teenagers? Or know any? As to your question… I dunno. But…that’s not part of your scholarly biblical repertoire and I really don’t have any interest in that. You seem to know a fair amount about the NWT----enough that it would have derailed a debate between us. While I have used a fair amount of translations, the NWT is the one I use most. (and as I pointed out, I would be comfortable using any translation) But…as it seems that that translation is highly suspect, so why don’t we start there? **simster** , you can join in. How 'bout it? ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-jehovahs-witnesses-at-the-door/579394/264 "2011-06-21T04:14:43Z")
> [@simster](#): > > At the risk of yet another game with you - what gives you that impression? You’re not really good with sarcasm… ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-jehovahs-witnesses-at-the-door/579394/265 "2011-06-21T04:29:04Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > You don’t have teenagers? Or know any? > > As to your question… I dunno. > > But…that’s not part of your scholarly biblical repertoire and I really don’t have any interest in that. > > You seem to know a fair amount about the NWT----enough that it would have derailed a debate between us. > > While I have used a fair amount of translations, the NWT is the one I use most. (and as I pointed out, I would be comfortable using any translation) > > But…as it seems that that translation is highly suspect, so why don’t we start there? > > **simster** , you can join in. How 'bout it? I have already stated that I will not continue in this game with you - you clearly have no interest in an honest or open discussion. Your veiled insults and attempts at witt are tiresome and show what you really stand for. You truly are a credit to the WT, you truly represent what they have stood for since they began. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-jehovahs-witnesses-at-the-door/579394/266 "2011-06-21T04:36:09Z")
> [@simster](#): > > I have already stated that I will not continue in this game with you - you clearly have no interest in an honest or open discussion. Your veiled insults and attempts at witt are tiresome and show what you really stand for. > > You truly are a credit to the WT, you truly represent what they have stood for since they began. \ Stop buttering me up. It’s crass. C’mon. You had me on the run with the first question. We’ll start over. Both of you were harshly critical of the NWT. We’ll examine that translation, k? ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-jehovahs-witnesses-at-the-door/579394/267 "2011-06-21T04:43:21Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > \ > > Stop buttering me up. It’s crass. > > C’mon. You had me on the run with the first question. We’ll start over. > > Both of you were harshly critical of the NWT. We’ll examine that translation, k? K. Why don’t you darken collegiate doors? ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-jehovahs-witnesses-at-the-door/579394/268 "2011-06-21T04:50:29Z")
Lest you offer the teenager nonsequitor again, yes, I’ve been a foster parent to 9 teens with felony charges as well as aunt to a couple awesome, loving, clever teens. College students are only teens for a couple years, are of legal age before graduation. And your faith counsels young teens in your realm to marry early and shun secondary education. So: no go. Why don’t you darken collegiate doors? ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-jehovahs-witnesses-at-the-door/579394/269 "2011-06-21T07:43:50Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > So I ask again, why do JWs spend their time doingthings most likely to encounter people who are closed minded, already have their mind up, or are manifestly hostile to their message or just want to argue? Door to door is the _least effective_ way to find people who are actually curious. Put up signs, mail out flyers, leave [del]trash[/del]pamphlets on car windows - hell, wear a T-shirt that says “Ask me about the path to Jesus” or whatever. Every one of those methods will bring you in contact with people who are actually open to what you have to say, as opposed to interrupting people at random. Knocking on doors, though, is just going to make people hostile to your message. > > \*\* > > That passage is not a command or an instruction. It is a description of events that happened. Just because the apostles at that time spread the word house to house, that does not mean it was expected of them, or that it is expected of you. Maybe they spread the word house to house because they were traveling and staying with people in their homes, and sharing the word with the people that were hosting them. > > \*\* > > But that wasn’t the question. You weren’t asked “Why don’t JWs only go to college students”, but “Why do JWs _avoid_ college students”. > > It’s this kind of evasiveness that is why people are ignoring your response. You don’t answer the questions asked, and instead make biblical references that have nothing to do with the topic and drop them in like they are supposed to mean something. Case in point, you have yet to answer how vomit on tables has anything to do with the clergy/laity split. > > Again, a completely irrelevant cite. Those verses say nothing about people wanting JWs to visit them at their house. Those verses are merely the comment that something that is inspired by God will flourish, whereas if it isn’t by God it will die. Paragraphs 1,2: Do you have a background in psychology? Can you really speak for all the people in the world whose doors the Witnesses might approach? Besides, I have seen copies of \*The Watchtower \*and _Awake!_ in laundromats and in buses and Metro Rail cars (not littering the sidewalks, which is where I sometimes find Jack Chick Tracts). Not quite a mailer, a sign or a flyer under a windshield wiper; but I used to work as a security guard at a place with a parking lot, and I don’t approve of those. Paragraph 3: I might point out, that when I was attending El Camino College in Fall 1970, I woiuld speak out, to people in the classes, and out on the campus. I got into a dispute one time with a Jack Chick type there; and I handed out tracts–I even gave one at a booth staffed by members of the SDS, who for all I know read it. Paragraph 4; This is an example of a point of mine that misfired. If I gave the impression that there was a connection between this verse and the traditional clergy-laity division of Christendom I committed a serious blunder and I would be remiss not to admit it. One of the posters severely chided the Witnesses for adhering to the policies of the “elders,” as they put it. This is not the first time other organizations or individuals have criticized the Witnesses for what I suppose to be lack of independent thinking; but years ago the Witnesses’ literature pointed out that the mainstream churches have either held to their “old time religion” whose connection to the Bible is questionable, or they have turned modernistic to appeal to a larger audience. Hence the allusion to the passage in Isaiah. Paragraph 5: See Paragraphs 1, 2. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-jehovahs-witnesses-at-the-door/579394/270 "2011-06-21T11:22:09Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > Lest you offer the teenager nonsequitor again, yes, I’ve been a foster parent to 9 teens with felony charges as well as aunt to a couple awesome, loving, clever teens. College students are only teens for a couple years, are of legal age before graduation. And your faith counsels young teens in your realm to marry early and shun secondary education. So: no go. > > Why don’t you darken collegiate doors? One must wonder about your parenting skills if so many of them are in trouble with the law. Whats up with that? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-jehovahs-witnesses-at-the-door/579394/271 "2011-06-21T14:16:45Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > So I ask again, why do JWs spend their time doingthings most likely to encounter people who are closed minded, already have their mind up, or are manifestly hostile to their message or just want to argue? Door to door is the _least effective_ way to find people who are actually curious. Put up signs, mail out flyers, leave [del]trash[/del]pamphlets on car windows - hell, wear a T-shirt that says “Ask me about the path to Jesus” or whatever. Every one of those methods will bring you in contact with people who are actually open to what you have to say, as opposed to interrupting people at random. Knocking on doors, though, is just going to make people hostile to your message. > > \*\* I realize that what I’m about to say is probably going to be ignored, but the above is patently false. I work in marketing, and the person-to-person approach is BY FAR the most effective way to sell. It dwarfs direct mail and media advertising, and the difference is not even close. It’s usually prohibitively expensive in business situations, but the Witnesses and the LDS have effectively made personal appeals part and parcel of their culture, so they’re able to put missionaries in the field for either nothing (in the case of the Witnesses) or the cost of bare subsistance (in the case of the LDS). It may annoy you, but this sort of missionary activity hasn’t persisted for generations because it doesn’t work. To give a non-religious example: a friend of mine did a rotation as an Army recruiter. When the end of the month was looming and it looked like they weren’t going to make their quota, he would start going door-to-door in working-class neighborhoods. This always worked. They didn’t do it all the time because of the psychological impact of being repeatedly screamed at and chased down the walk (which struck me as odd, considering my friend was a combat veteran), but they could easily quadruple their productivity by using door-to-door tactics. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-jehovahs-witnesses-at-the-door/579394/272 "2011-06-21T14:18:31Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > One must wonder about your parenting skills if so many of them are in trouble with the law. > > Whats up with that? 😉 Um…he’s a foster parent. The trouble in question was pre- **Troppus**. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-jehovahs-witnesses-at-the-door/579394/273 "2011-06-21T15:01:43Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > Um…he’s a foster parent. The trouble in question was pre- **Troppus**. Yea, I figured that. That was my Michael Scott imitation. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-jehovahs-witnesses-at-the-door/579394/274 "2011-06-21T15:43:21Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > **Irishman** > > Out of curiosity, have you read the bible? Irrelevant. dougie\_monty makes statements and makes citations to the Bible to back up his assertions. I read his citations and they do not support his statements. Just like any other debate. > [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Paragraphs 1,2: Do you have a background in psychology? Can you really speak for all the people in the world whose doors the Witnesses might approach? No, I do not have a background in psychology. I have personal experience with how I feel being approached at home, I have awareness of how LDS and JWs are perceived in popular culture for their techniques of visiting door-to-door, and I have the statements made in this thread of how people react to JWs at the door. All of which state that most people do not wish to be approached at home. > [@](#): > > Paragraph 3: I might point out, that when I was attending El Camino College in Fall 1970, I woiuld speak out, to people in the classes, and out on the campus. I got into a dispute one time with a Jack Chick type there; and I handed out tracts–I even gave one at a booth staffed by members of the SDS, who for all I know read it. Interesting anecdote, which does not really address **Troppus** ’s question. **Troppus** has asserted that JW’s actively avoid college campuses and dorms. Is this true? You claim that you have not avoided college campuses. Still, is there any rebuttal to the claim that JWs as a group intentionally avoid colleges? And if so, why is that? > [@](#): > > Paragraph 4; This is an example of a point of mine that misfired. If I gave the impression that there was a connection between this verse and the traditional clergy-laity division of Christendom I committed a serious blunder and I would be remiss not to admit it. Thank you for clarifying. > [@](#): > > Paragraph 5: See Paragraphs 1, 2. So once again you fail to address the actual point and deflect to a non-answer. Your cited Bible verses say nothing about people wanting JWs to visit them door-to-door. [QUOTE=Troppus] If you know the reason why campuses and surrounding complexes are avoided I’m genuinely curious. [/QUOTE] No, I don’t know the actual reason. I don’t even know if what you assert is true. I am merely pointing out there are a variety of possible explanations that I can think of that negate the conclusion you draw. But I didn’t actually offer them as guesses because I don’t actually know. > [@StusBlues](#): > > I realize that what I’m about to say is probably going to be ignored, but the above is patently false. I work in marketing, and the person-to-person approach is BY FAR the most effective way to sell. It dwarfs direct mail and media advertising, and the difference is not even close. > [snip] > They didn’t do it all the time because of the psychological impact of being repeatedly screamed at and chased down the walk (which struck me as odd, considering my friend was a combat veteran), but they could easily quadruple their productivity by using door-to-door tactics. I understand that. But look at your own statements - it has the highest response rate, but also leads to being screamed at and chased down the walk. When \*\*raindog \*\*made the statement that JWs do not wish to waste their time with the uninterested, I pointed out that they are going to be running into a high percentage of uninterested people by going door-to-door. Those other techniques have a far lower response rate, true, but have the virtue that the responses received are usually genuinely interested. That was the point. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-jehovahs-witnesses-at-the-door/579394/275 "2011-06-21T17:03:12Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > I understand that. But look at your own statements - it has the highest response rate, but also leads to being screamed at and chased down the walk. When \*\*raindog \*\*made the statement that JWs do not wish to waste their time with the uninterested, I pointed out that they are going to be running into a high percentage of uninterested people by going door-to-door. Those other techniques have a far lower response rate, true, but have the virtue that the responses received are usually genuinely interested. That was the point. One of the things that interests me is how _subjective beliefs_ can be so internally compelling that the line between objectivity and subjectivity become so blurred that they became ‘truth.’ And so it has been my experience here that many people who are essentially witnessing---------sharing their subjective beliefs, even if sometimes using them to lay siege to other subjective beliefs------don’t see them as subjective but "truth’ or reality. Look, there are _few_ JWs who post here. I’ve taken pains more than once to share the exact procedure-----which is painless and quick------on how one can easily be put on the ‘do not call’ list. Invariably, that is unsatisfying and in every thread there are those in the grandstands who insist that it isn’t quite enough that **their particular home** won’t be canvassed by JWs, but that\* JWs shouldn’t be canvassing anyone’s home.\* Setting aside the ignorance associated with the fact that it **is** an effective form of proselytizing, and the ignorance that there may be both a biblical and historical precedent that requires this proselytizing as a measure of their faith, and even the [apparent] ignorance that these types of freedoms are the lubricant of a free society, and should be tolerated if not celebrated, it is more than apparent that when **Troppus _et al_** stop speaking for themselves (and their like minded family members) and presume to speak for _“many rational, reasonable beings”_ it isn’t just presumptuous, arrogant, and incorrect, but he’s _witnessing_ to us. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-jehovahs-witnesses-at-the-door/579394/276 "2011-06-21T17:16:43Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > I understand that. But look at your own statements - it has the highest response rate, but also leads to being screamed at and chased down the walk. When \*\*raindog \*\*made the statement that JWs do not wish to waste their time with the uninterested, I pointed out that they are going to be running into a high percentage of uninterested people by going door-to-door. Those other techniques have a far lower response rate, true, but have the virtue that the responses received are usually genuinely interested. That was the point. With all due respect, you don’t know what you’re talking about. And, I don’t mean that in a snarky way. If one spends a little time in these threads one comes away with an impression that doesn’t play in real life. **StusBlues** was spot on, although the issue of effectiveness is not the reason JWs go door to door. Message boards are well known for hyperbole, exaggeration, and outright fabrication. Overwhelmingly JWs face abject apathy. Indifference. An _infinitesimal_ amount of people will be angry. Actually a larger percentage will show at least some interest, and a fair amount of people will be at least receptive to some conversation. Yet time and time and time and time and time and time again we’ve read posts that often explicitly state—if not implicitly suggest-----that “I don’t like the JWs or their message and I’m simply not just representative of most people, **but I implicitly speak for all people** and we don’t want JWs coming to our houses.” Thats the hallmark of witnessing. They’re just not very good at it. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-jehovahs-witnesses-at-the-door/579394/277 "2011-06-21T18:04:41Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > It’s usually prohibitively expensive in business situations, but the Witnesses and the LDS have effectively made personal appeals part and parcel of their culture, so they’re able to put missionaries in the field for either nothing (in the case of the Witnesses) or the cost of bare subsistance (in the case of the LDS). It may annoy you, but this sort of missionary activity hasn’t persisted for generations because it doesn’t work. The Mormons (LDS) also field their missionaries at no cost. They make the missionaries PAY the church for the privilege of going door to door. I paid $400/month or $9,600 for the whole two years. Now, with inflation and so forth, I believe it’s $450/month. Ten grand and you still have to buy your own bike helmet. I wish I had the balls to invent a church like that. However, I disagree that missionary work is particularly effective. It’s miles better than direct mail or advertising, yes. If all a church did was put an ad in the Yellow Pages, they’re going to be waiting a long time for those coffers to fill up. But going door to door is a still a numbers game. You knock on 5,000 doors and eventually you’ll find someone in a bad enough place in their life to change religions. They should learn from Catholics. Reproduction and lack of birth control is where the real numbers are, not this waking people up on Saturday shit. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-jehovahs-witnesses-at-the-door/579394/278 "2011-06-21T18:31:31Z")
I meant to answer this before and we/I got sidetracked: > [@Irishman](#): > > dougie, raindog, about the Do Not Call list… How many Kingdom Halls are there in a given geographic area? Theres no easy answer to that. It’s probably based on population density. the average congregation is around 125 people. When they get much larger than 250ish they split, and create 2 congregations. > [@](#): > > Is it based upon population density? oops. yes. see above. > [@](#): > > Do they have overlapping membership areas? No. each congregation has a “territory”. (think parish) They do not overlap. you live in one specific congregation’s territory. > [@](#): > > How many Kingdom Halls will I need to call and get placed on their list? Maybe one. Maybe two. Call the KH closest to you around 9:30 a.m. Tell them your address. Either you’re in their territory, or they’ll likely be able to tell you whose territory you’re in. > [@](#): > > Do JWs go to areas not covered by their own Kingdom Hall to make visits? Generally no, and never informally. if you live in a rural area, occasionally there may be an effort to work “unassigned territory.” If you live anywhere a city or 'burb you’re likely in someone’s assigned territory. > [@](#): > > Is there a National Do Not Call registry, or is it individual to each Hall? There is no national registry. It’s always local, and your address is in the territory of a single congregation. They take the "do not calls’ very seriously, and while mistakes sometimes happen, they work very hard to respect that list. > [@](#): > > I’m guessing the answer is going to be I need to call every Kingdom Hall in the country individually. No. You might need to call two of them. But it will be easy to find out in whose territory you’re in. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-jehovahs-witnesses-at-the-door/579394/279 "2011-06-21T18:32:55Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > The Mormons (LDS) also field their missionaries at no cost. They make the missionaries PAY the church for the privilege of going door to door. I paid $400/month or $9,600 for the whole two years. Now, with inflation and so forth, I believe it’s $450/month. Ten grand and you still have to buy your own bike helmet. I wish I had the balls to invent a church like that. > > However, I disagree that missionary work is particularly effective. It’s miles better than direct mail or advertising, yes. If all a church did was put an ad in the Yellow Pages, they’re going to be waiting a long time for those coffers to fill up. But going door to door is a still a numbers game. You knock on 5,000 doors and eventually you’ll find someone in a bad enough place in their life to change religions. > > They should learn from Catholics. Reproduction and lack of birth control is where the real numbers are, not this waking people up on Saturday shit. Considering that the watchtower org website claims that they spent 1,604,764,248 hours “preaching” (yes - thats BILLIONs of hours claimed) in 2010 (gotta wonder what qualifies as preaching, but that is another thread) and that resulted in 294,368 baptisms - many of which I’m sure were not first contacted in 2010 - that has to be pretty much the worst ROI imaginable. Even if you factor in the difference betweem ‘members’ and ‘Memorial attendance’ (the JW Easter ‘Celebration’) - there is only a .6% response rate (if you were to assume that all the hours spent were JUST to get folks to the Memorial, and we know thats not the case). Now, if you consider that the major focus of the WT is not in conversion (read raindogs post for evidence - they only spend time on the interested) - but in getting donations and placing literature - that puts a different perspective on it - I’m sure lots of those doors result in a dollar or two going back to the org - thats alot of money - without any real effort on anyones behalf. If they spent even a portion of that time helping the poor or the needy or actually helping anyone, wihout the preaching (think soup kitchens, homeless work, etc) - then they might have a claim to being a bonafide christian group - but blindly going to doors and pretending that means something - well ------ I’ll leave that to the reader to decide. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-jehovahs-witnesses-at-the-door/579394/280 "2011-06-21T18:45:38Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > The Mormons (LDS) also field their missionaries at no cost. They make the missionaries PAY the church for the privilege of going door to door. I paid $400/month or $9,600 for the whole two years. Now, with inflation and so forth, I believe it’s $450/month. Ten grand and you still have to buy your own bike helmet. I wish I had the balls to invent a church like that. Thanks for the clarification. Good to know. > [@](#): > > However, I disagree that missionary work is particularly effective. It’s miles better than direct mail or advertising, yes. If all a church did was put an ad in the Yellow Pages, they’re going to be waiting a long time for those coffers to fill up. But going door to door is a still a numbers game. You knock on 5,000 doors and eventually you’ll find someone in a bad enough place in their life to change religions. Oh, yes, and that’s why it’s so prohibitively expensive. I will argue that it’s effective, though, on the scale the LDS practices it. For example: \*Almost every Mormon spends two years doing missionary work and brings in, say, ten converts during that time. (I’m making that number up, but stay with me here.) \*Of those ten, say one-fifth actually stick with it. That’s two livelong converts for every missionary. \*This nets out to a nearly 200% net gain for the church in the span of a lifetime. That’s effective. You can adjust my inputs above as you wish. I’m betting that you’re still talking geometric growth from missionary work alone. > [@](#): > > They should learn from Catholics. Reproduction and lack of birth control is where the real numbers are, not this waking people up on Saturday shit. [I’ve noticed that LDS families are rather large as well.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Osmonds) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-jehovahs-witnesses-at-the-door/579394.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-jehovahs-witnesses-at-the-door/579394.md?page=15)