# Re Kansas what happens welfare benefits are slashed, do poor people leave the state or what? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 4, 2015, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838 "2015-04-04T22:56:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/261 "2015-04-14T17:33:13Z")
> [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](#): > > That’s an overly simplistic interpretation. Rather, people who can afford luxuries evidently don’t need assistance buying the basic necessities of life. If poor people can find happiness without needing public money, good for them. But conservatives don’t want the government making someone poorer so that someone can indulge in things they don’t need. Some people in this thread are saying that if a family member gives them a nice present, maybe to cheer them up, they should stop receiving aid. That’s what I mean about keeping them miserable. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/262 "2015-04-14T18:17:59Z")
If the Kansas legislature believes that people who are bad with money should be severely constrained in their ability to use it, I believe the proposal should be extended. Right now, the legislature budgets annually and has a projected shortfall of $344 million. Fuck that. Make the legislature pass a new budget every day. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/263 "2015-04-14T18:35:24Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Some people in this thread are saying that if a family member gives them a nice present, maybe to cheer them up, they should stop receiving aid. That’s what I mean about keeping them miserable. When certifying or re-certifying for benefits, people should have to declare income from all sources, including cash and non-cash gifts received from others. It’s not about “keeping them miserable”, it’s about making sure that those who receive benefits actually qualify\* for them. \*at least for those programs that have “income”, or lack thereof, as one of the qualifications. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/264 "2015-04-14T18:53:34Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Well, what if the cable TV is the major source of entertainment for the household? What if it is? As you yourself mention, there are better, cheaper options. > [@](#): > > Maybe the kids have been told “either keep your grades up or no cable” in which case it’s not _just_ entertainment, it’s a reward for doing well at something that will have greater benefits down the line. I like this idea. Perhaps the KS legislature can amend the law so that everyone under 16 in a household has to maintain a C average, or their cable gets shut off. > [@](#): > > Maybe for one family access to movies and videos is huge. Maybe another family doesn’t feel a need for cable/whatever but one a month wants to have a steak dinner grilled out on the back porch - and if they can budget their food such that there’s enough SNAP/TANF/other money left over at the end of the month to do that more power to them. Maybe for another family a working computer and internet access in the home is a big deal. Different people have different needs and wants and motivations. As soon as they are self-supporting, they can buy whatever they want and nobody will say Boo about it. So all these differing motivations can be harnessed at the same time. > [@](#): > > Poverty should not be a crime and it should not be treated as such. “You have been found guilty of the crime of poverty. I hereby sentence you to not having somebody else pay your cable bill.” Call the Hague - its worse than Gitmo. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/265 "2015-04-14T19:02:58Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > As soon as they are self-supporting, they can buy whatever they want and nobody will say Boo about it. So all these differing motivations can be harnessed at the same time. Or they can budget their money as they see fit and the haters of the poor can mind their own fucking business. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/266 "2015-04-14T19:09:18Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > When certifying or re-certifying for benefits, people should have to declare income from all sources, including cash and non-cash gifts received from others. It’s not about “keeping them miserable”, it’s about making sure that those who receive benefits actually qualify\* for them. > > \*at least for those programs that have “income”, or lack thereof, as one of the qualifications. “Gift” does not imply that the recipient had any control over the giver’s decision, nor any reason to expect that the gift will continue. Now if these two criteria are proven, that’s a different situation. Consider, however, a case where Grandma pays the cable bill as a gift to the grandchildren. If the parent doesn’t have the ability to convince/compel Grandma to pay cash or some other bill instead, and has no ability to compel Grandma to keep paying the bill, is it really income? It’s not available to be spent as the recipient wants or needs, and it doesn’t put food on the table or a roof overhead, so why should it be used as a way to disqualify somebody? Welfare applications do ask for all monies received (including gifts), and such applications also count any portion of the necessary bills (rent, utilities, food, etc.) routinely paid by or legally the responsibility of other people. Grandma paying the cable bill doesn’t fall into either category. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/267 "2015-04-14T19:09:44Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > When certifying or re-certifying for benefits, people should have to declare income from all sources, including cash and non-cash gifts received from others. It’s not about “keeping them miserable”, it’s about making sure that those who receive benefits actually qualify\* for them. I’m sure you’ll be happy to know that at least in my state that IS a requirement. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/268 "2015-04-14T19:11:22Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > Welfare applications do ask for all monies received (including gifts), and such applications also count any portion of the necessary bills (rent, utilities, food, etc.) routinely paid by or legally the responsibility of other people. Grandma paying the cable bill doesn’t fall into either category. Actually, if grandma does in fact pay the cable bill every month that could considered in the various calculations. Whether grandma pays the cable bill directly herself (perhaps it is in her name) or hands the family the money to pay the bill makes a considerable difference. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/269 "2015-04-14T19:27:32Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > …“You have been found guilty of the crime of poverty. I hereby sentence you to not having somebody else pay your cable bill.”… “It’s not a crime to be poor in America, but it might as well be.” = Will Rogers (attrib.) ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/270 "2015-04-14T20:01:58Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > All Kansas did was make it harder to buy items with cash which is the easiest way to abuse the aid. They didn’t take a single penny away from recipients. The problem is that a significant portion of the stuff the poor buy is only buyable with cash: 1. Car problems: the middle class goes to high priced dealers and mechanics; the poor go to the shadetree mechanic working out of his house. 2. Child care: the middle class has expensive daycare; the poor use a neighborhood babysitter. 3. Clothes and furniture: the middle class goes to a huge range of furniture stores, department stores, specialty stores; the poor use garage sales and Craiglist. … ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/271 "2015-04-14T20:32:59Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Actually, if grandma does in fact pay the cable bill every month that could considered in the various calculations. Whether grandma pays the cable bill directly herself (perhaps it is in her name) or hands the family the money to pay the bill makes a considerable difference. Grandma handing the family cash to pay the cable bill is Grandma handing the family cash, a fungible commodity that can be used to pay whatever bill the family really needs. Grandma paying the bill directly, no matter whose name it is in, is not something that can be converted into anything else. At least in my state, somebody outside the household paying (any part of) the rent/mortgage, property taxes, homeowner’s insurance, heating/cooling, water, sewer, telephone, electricity/gas for cooking and lights, and child care would be factored into the calculations, as would any _predictable_ monetary payments or any monetary payments over $50. Non-monetary gifts that don’t meet those requirements, including paying for cable or Netflix or junior’s violin lessons, would not be considered. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/272 "2015-04-14T20:42:43Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Or they can budget their money as they see fit and the haters of the poor can mind their own fucking business. _Their_ money - sure. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/273 "2015-04-14T20:43:24Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > Grandma handing the family cash to pay the cable bill is Grandma handing the family cash, a fungible commodity that can be used to pay whatever bill the family really needs. Grandma paying the bill directly, no matter whose name it is in, is not something that can be converted into anything else. > > At least in my state, somebody outside the household paying (any part of) the rent/mortgage, property taxes, homeowner’s insurance, heating/cooling, water, sewer, telephone, electricity/gas for cooking and lights, and child care would be factored into the calculations, as would any _predictable_ monetary payments or any monetary payments over $50. Non-monetary gifts that don’t meet those requirements, including paying for cable or Netflix or junior’s violin lessons, would not be considered. I would say that is an eminently correct and applicable analysis of the situation. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/274 "2015-04-14T20:59:13Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > _Their_ money - sure. > > Regards, > Shodan It is their money. Once they get it, it’s theirs. Got a problem with that? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/275 "2015-04-14T21:34:41Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > It is their money. Once they get it, it’s theirs. Got a problem with that? The people of Kansas disagree with you, insofar as they limited cash withdrawals to $25 per day. If it were truly the money of the recipients, no such limit would exist. Whose viewpoints are decisive at the end of the day, people like you posting on a message board, or the people of Kansas through their elected Governor and Legislature? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/276 "2015-04-14T22:28:18Z")
You owe\*\* Bricker\*\* a nickel. Better pay him. He’s a lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/277 "2015-04-14T23:24:30Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The people of Kansas disagree with you, insofar as they limited cash withdrawals to $25 per day. If it were truly the money of the recipients, no such limit would exist. > > Whose viewpoints are decisive at the end of the day, people like you posting on a message board, or the people of Kansas through their elected Governor and Legislature? The Legislature of Kansas made the bill and the governor signed it. This is because they are a bunch of petty, vindictive assholes. The people of Kansas didn’t directly weigh in. The purpose to the law is to fuck up poor people’s live to the greatest extent necessary, just as the purpose of voter ID laws is to disenfranchise the poor. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/278 "2015-04-14T23:43:31Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The people of Kansas disagree with you, insofar as they limited cash withdrawals to $25 per day. If it were truly the money of the recipients, no such limit would exist. Why do I have the sneaking suspicion that this argument wouldn’t wash if the discussion were about how much you, personally, have to pay in taxes? ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/279 "2015-04-15T00:27:37Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The people of Kansas disagree with you, insofar as they limited cash withdrawals to $25 per day. If it were truly the money of the recipients, no such limit would exist. > > Whose viewpoints are decisive at the end of the day, people like you posting on a message board, or the people of Kansas through their elected Governor and Legislature? This reminds me of the people who say that the government should be able to dictate what teachers spend their paychecks on. After all, it’s the taxpayers’ money, right? ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/280 "2015-04-15T01:16:30Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > The Legislature of Kansas made the bill and the governor signed it. He probably will sign it, but I just googled this and can’t find evidence it has been signed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838.md?page=15)