# Re Kansas what happens welfare benefits are slashed, do poor people leave the state or what? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 4, 2015, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838 "2015-04-04T22:56:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/141 "2015-04-07T18:09:52Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > OK. So to sum it up, Kansas : > > 1. Apparently, as long as your rent isn’t paid in cash, it isn’t making it difficult to pay rent or buy $200 in groceries in one shopping trip or anything. So then, with a pre-paid card, how _do_ you pay your rent? It’s not a checking account, you cant write a check. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/142 "2015-04-07T19:40:45Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > Naturally, the fraction of them boozing it up may actually be smaller than the number of _rich_ people abusing drugs, but it’s an easy political argument to make. What does that have to do with anything? The point isn’t that poor people do drugs disproportionately, it’s that ostensibly the electorate doesn’t want public funds being used to buy drugs and booze. The same electorate doesn’t care if rich people swim around in a bathtub full of Johnnie Walker Blue or smoke a cubic meter of pot, as long as it’s on their own dime. (I don’t live in Kansas, and really don’t give a shit what they do there, but making it out to be some kind of “rich people get to drink beer and smoke weed, but those poor people don’t.” kind of class-warfare thing is just stupid.) ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/143 "2015-04-07T22:07:36Z")
Thread relocated to Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/144 "2015-04-07T22:11:29Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > Would you be able to get the TANF benefit put into a bank account or pay rent directly from it? That seems to be the idea, but the article was not clear. No, apparently you can NOT have the TANF benefit direct-deposited into a bank account, you can only transfer it by making cash withdrawals and then depositing them into the bank. No, you can not pay rent directly from it unless your landlord take credit/debit cards. As I have stated, I have been a renter all my adult life and I have _never_ encountered a landlord that takes rent via credit card. They may exist, but they are very far from universal if they do exist. > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > No one has answered this question yet. Why should a bank be expected, let alone required, to provide bank card services, without a fee? Well, in MY state, Indiana, aid recipients are NOT charged a fee by the benefit card contractor and indeed they are cautioned by Public Aid to avoid certain ATM’s and POS to _avoid_ fees being taken out of their benefit amounts. In contrast to Kansas, which seems to encourage that sort of behavior. In Indiana the contractor still gets paid - by the state, for rendering service to the state. The contractor fees are _separate_ from the benefit money. > [@AnaMen](#): > > I didn’t say this system helped with any of that–I said expecting someone to open a bank account to avoid these fees was not unreasonable. Well, that would be _great_ if banks were eager to open branches in poor neighborhoods - they aren’t. Also, _as multiple people have pointed out_, you can NOT have your TANF benefit direct-deposited into a bank account. There is _no way_ to transfer the money without being charged fees. > [@](#): > > But the person who is not having to do laundry in the tub (been there done that), able to easily buy all needed toiletries, paying late fees, etc. is also not learning anything these experiences teach. WTF? What the _freak_ do you “learn” from that? That people from strangers to your coworkers will shun you because you couldn’t afford deodorant this week? That if you’re late on a bill you’ll need to forgo having lunch this week? That doing laundry in a bathtub is far inferior to using a washing machine? Poverty is not required to learn these lessons, and it’s both arrogant and condescending for you to assume poor people somehow are ignorant of these realities. Even more so if you’ve been poor yourself. What has poverty taught me? NOTHING. I knew poverty sucked _before_ I was poor, and being poor has only confirmed that I was correct. Honestly, being poor has not taught me a single thing I didn’t know before I became poor. > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > No, actually, you did not. > > The “state pays the fees” isn’t a practical example. Why not? It works in MY state. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/145 "2015-04-07T22:14:15Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > No, apparently you can NOT have the TANF benefit direct-deposited into a bank account, you can only transfer it by making cash withdrawals and then depositing them into the bank. > > No, you can not pay rent directly from it unless your landlord take credit/debit cards. As I have stated, I have been a renter all my adult life and I have _never_ encountered a landlord that takes rent via credit card. They may exist, but they are very far from universal if they do exist. > Well, in MY state, Indiana, aid recipients are NOT charged a fee by the benefit card contractor and indeed they are cautioned by Public Aid to avoid certain ATM’s and POS to _avoid_ fees being taken out of their benefit amounts. All states do it differently, I heard a couple states do this. If you are renting a room in someones house, maybe- for a month or two. Right, this is a big issue. Kansas is doing it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/146 "2015-04-07T22:55:16Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > No, apparently you can NOT have the TANF benefit direct-deposited into a bank account, you can only transfer it by making cash withdrawals and then depositing them into the bank. > > … > Well, that would be _great_ if banks were eager to open branches in poor neighborhoods - they aren’t. Also, _as multiple people have pointed out_, you can NOT have your TANF benefit direct-deposited into a bank account. There is _no way_ to transfer the money without being charged fees. > WTF? What the _freak_ do you “learn” from that? > > That people from strangers to your coworkers will shun you because you couldn’t afford deodorant this week? > > That if you’re late on a bill you’ll need to forgo having lunch this week? > > That doing laundry in a bathtub is far inferior to using a washing machine? > > Poverty is not required to learn these lessons, and it’s both arrogant and condescending for you to assume poor people somehow are ignorant of these realities. Even more so if you’ve been poor yourself. > > What has poverty taught me? NOTHING. I knew poverty sucked _before_ I was poor, and being poor has only confirmed that I was correct. Honestly, being poor has not taught me a single thing I didn’t know before I became poor. That’s what you keep saying, but in the article and in the article I cited, the opposite is implied. That proves nothing, but I see no proof of what you are claiming either. I have made no claims about what “poor people” do or do not know. Anyone could become poor, so obviously if you know someone is “poor,” that is all you know about them. However, let’s be realistic… Spending every penny you get on nonsensical crap often leads to poverty. Addiction often leads to poverty. Lacking basic skills often leads to poverty. As a result, a non-trivial number of people are poor for these reasons. I’m not saying this means any people who are poor deserve poverty or to be denied assistance, but that in these cases, handing over large quantities of cash is not going to help at all. Let’s say I have an adult child who lives on her own, but simply does not budget her income at all and has her utilities shut off. With no water or electricity, she must eat at restaurants, making it impossible for her to ever gather up enough money to get the utilities back on, plus now they want enormous deposits. I can easily afford to cover the costs of these and help her get things turned back on. I take her to the grocery store and buy her normal food. Several weeks later, the utilities are back off, since she was deprived of the lesson and still does not budget. Does this seem like a surprising course of events? What do you recommend next? And if you’ve learned nothing from any life experience, I recommend you pay more attention. If you think you cannot improve your situation, you’re right. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/147 "2015-04-08T01:03:04Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > … > It seems a little odd to complain about eighty-five cents in ATM fees, but not about spending more than that on liquor or fortune tellers. > > Regards, > Shodan This kind of statement really irks me. Are we required to follow every mention of the ATM fees with a denunciation of liquor and fortune tellers? Do we need to repeatedly list all bad things they might spend their money on before we’re allowed to question the ATM fees? If we complain about a sin, are we hypocrites if we don’t at the same time list all other sins? Failure to loudly decry liquor and fortune tellers in every post does not mean that we support wasting money on such things! ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/148 "2015-04-08T02:00:45Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > There’s no time for that! POOR PEOPLE ARE GOING TO DIE BECAUSE IT COSTS THEM EIGHTY FIVE CENTS TO PAY THE BABYSITTER!!! > > Regards, > Shodan Shodan, I note in this and other threads that you have a tendency to fail to respond to the question/point posed to you. I think you believe you are making a point. I suspect that what you really mean here is “fuck them in their deservedly poor asses, they should be thankful that I don’t send them to the rendering plant” but, knowing that would seem insensitive, you attempt to belittle the point/question posed. I eagerly await your reply. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/149 "2015-04-08T02:17:01Z")
I think it would be a really good idea of Kansas state employees - especially those who make the most money - are prohibited from spending their pay checks on things I don’t like. For example, cigarettes. And kale. That stuff is nasty. No gin, either. And no food with trans-fats. And there’s too many overweight people in Kansas, so no ice cream or red meat. These people are living on tax money, and they should respect that. After all, the public telling state senators how to spend a paycheck is the route to prosperity or something. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/150 "2015-04-08T02:45:09Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > And then you can yell at poor people for wasting their money at Target and Safeway rather than frugally shopping garage sales and cheap farm stands. > > I also have no reason to believe that this “deters” anything. Do you? yes, and you know it will. It deters the use of the card conversion to cash. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/151 "2015-04-08T02:51:13Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > That’s what you keep saying, but in the article and in the article I cited, the opposite is implied. That proves nothing, but I see no proof of what you are claiming either. What part of : “From now on: • Your benefits will be put in an account set up for you. • You must use the card to get your benefits.” are you having trouble understanding? That’s a direct quote from the Kansas Vision Card handbook I cited above. Here’s the relevant content from the [Kansas Economic and Employment Support Manual](http://content.dcf.ks.gov/EES/KEESM/Current/Home.htm), the governing regulations for welfare in Kansas: > [@](#): > > 1510 Payment Information And Procedures - Regular monthly cash and child care benefits are based on current need (calendar month) and are paid in advance on the first of the month. Food stamp benefits are paid from the first through the tenth of the month. Food stamp, child care and cash payments are made available to clients through electronic benefit accounts by using a plastic debit card, the Kansas Benefits Card. Benefits can be accessed as follows: > > ``` > At point-of-sale (POS) devices for cash, food assistance and child care; > At automated teller machines (ATMs) for cash; and > Through the audio response unit (ARU) system for child care. > > ``` If you want TANF benefits in Kansas, they WILL be placed on the EBT card. You have no choice, and no option. That card is the only way a beneficiary has to use any part of the TANF benefits. > [@AnaMen](#): > > I have made no claims about what “poor people” do or do not know. Anyone could become poor, so obviously if you know someone is “poor,” that is all you know about them. However, let’s be realistic… Spending every penny you get on nonsensical crap often leads to poverty. Addiction often leads to poverty. Lacking basic skills often leads to poverty. As a result, a non-trivial number of people are poor for these reasons. I’m not saying this means any people who are poor deserve poverty or to be denied assistance, but that in these cases, handing over large quantities of cash is not going to help at all. But you are concluding that all poor people need to be prevented from having large sums of cash merely because SOME poor people ended up in poverty for these reasons. Even if a particular person ended up in poverty because of being laid off from work, or illness/accident, or uninsured casualty loss, they still can’t have large sums of cash because … why, exactly? > [@AnaMen](#): > > Let’s say I have an adult child who lives on her own, but simply does not budget her income at all and has her utilities shut off. With no water or electricity, she must eat at restaurants, making it impossible for her to ever gather up enough money to get the utilities back on, plus now they want enormous deposits. I can easily afford to cover the costs of these and help her get things turned back on. I take her to the grocery store and buy her normal food. Several weeks later, the utilities are back off, since she was deprived of the lesson and still does not budget. Does this seem like a surprising course of events? What do you recommend next? If she had her utilities shut off and needs to reestablish service with Kansas Gas Service, they want cash. If she has any history at all of bounced checks or the like, they will not accept any checks, money orders, or credit/debit payments until she has reestablished a history of paying her bill on-time and in full for twelve months, in cash. Now what happens when she can’t pay that bill consistently because she can’t withdraw enough of the cash she has on hand because of these restriction? What do you recommend next? > [@AnaMen](#): > > Then why did you liquidate _this_ money into cash? You could have used _this_ money on that food, goods, etc., by purchasing at places _not_ requiring cash. That, of course, assumes that I need to buy enough food or other goods to use up all of the “this” money, and that I have enough of “that” money to pay all of the bills that do require cash. What makes you think either of those is true? In fact, if “this” money can only be conveniently spent at retailers that take the card, didn’t you just teach me that it’s okay to spend ALL or at least most of “this” money at such retailers, whether or not I actually need what I’m buying, since I can’t realistically use “this” money to pay my rent or utilities or other bills? That’s a perverse incentive. > [@AnaMen](#): > > What is up in the air to a degree is the implementation of the disbursement limit and other restrictions in the bill. Reading an outdated brochure that has been taken down is not useful. Hint: they take these things down when they don’t apply anymore. No, actually, they took down version 2 because of minor changes in the fee structure (the ATM fee fee dropped from a dollar to eighty-five cents, e.g.). The most recent edition of the brochure was just taken down this past week because the legislature’s actions in adding the new restrictions caused the outdating. If you are willing to slog through the [actual text of the law](http://kslegislature.org/li/b2015_16/measures/documents/hb2258_02_0000.pdf), have at it; if you are not so willing, then don’t ask for cites you can’t be bothered to read. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/152 "2015-04-08T03:10:46Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > If she had her utilities shut off and needs to reestablish service with Kansas Gas Service, they want cash. If she has any history at all of bounced checks or the like, they will not accept any checks, money orders, or credit/debit payments until she has reestablished a history of paying her bill on-time and in full for twelve months, in cash. Now what happens when she can’t pay that bill consistently because she can’t withdraw enough of the cash she has on hand because of these restriction? What do you recommend next? Debit cards ARE cash. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/153 "2015-04-08T03:26:33Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Debit cards ARE cash. Umm. no. True, they arent credit or a check, but if the business isnt set up to take them, they are just a pretty piece of plastic. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/154 "2015-04-08T04:02:46Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > And if you’ve learned nothing from any life experience, I recommend you pay more attention. If you think you cannot improve your situation, you’re right. Nice way to turn around what I said and blame me for being laid off in 2007 along with tens of millions of other people - what, we’re ALL screw-ups in your mind? I learned nothing from being poor I didn’t already know. I’m sorry you can’t accept that and have to make up fantasies about how the fact I’m poor someone proves I’m incapable of learning. Like I said, nice way to twist words. Who said I’m NOT improving my situation? I went from part time to full time at my present job in less than a year AND got two raises along the way. What, that’s not good enough for you? Or were you just assuming I wasn’t going anywhere? Nice kneejerk assumption there - but then, it’s obvious from your posts in this thread you have nothing but contempt for those you consider beneath you and value humans beings based solely on their income. Unlike a lot of people I don’t feel a need to mangle an unpleasant episode in life into some sort of “learning experience” to make myself feel better. Poverty sucks, plain and simple. It’s not a “learning experience” or “opportunity for growth” or some other form of crap. It just sucks. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/155 "2015-04-08T04:13:47Z")
> [@TSBG](#): > > It is only when government money is spent to help poor people that an obsession develops with preventing the recipients from spending it as they wish. And it is only poor people who get ripped off with scams like this per-transaction fee BS. At root, it is about humiliating poor people. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/156 "2015-04-08T04:37:50Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > What part of : > > “From now on: > • Your benefits will be put in an account set up for you. > • You must use the card to get your benefits.” > > are you having trouble understanding? > > That’s a direct quote from the Kansas Vision Card handbook I cited above. > > Here’s the relevant content from the [Kansas Economic and Employment Support Manual](http://content.dcf.ks.gov/EES/KEESM/Current/Home.htm), the governing regulations for welfare in Kansas: > > If you want TANF benefits in Kansas, they WILL be placed on the EBT card. You have no choice, and no option. That card is the only way a beneficiary has to use any part of the TANF benefits. > > But you are concluding that all poor people need to be prevented from having large sums of cash merely because SOME poor people ended up in poverty for these reasons. Even if a particular person ended up in poverty because of being laid off from work, or illness/accident, or uninsured casualty loss, they still can’t have large sums of cash because … why, exactly? > > If she had her utilities shut off and needs to reestablish service with Kansas Gas Service, they want cash. If she has any history at all of bounced checks or the like, they will not accept any checks, money orders, or credit/debit payments until she has reestablished a history of paying her bill on-time and in full for twelve months, in cash. Now what happens when she can’t pay that bill consistently because she can’t withdraw enough of the cash she has on hand because of these restriction? What do you recommend next? > > That, of course, assumes that I need to buy enough food or other goods to use up all of the “this” money, and that I have enough of “that” money to pay all of the bills that do require cash. What makes you think either of those is true? > > In fact, if “this” money can only be conveniently spent at retailers that take the card, didn’t you just teach me that it’s okay to spend ALL or at least most of “this” money at such retailers, whether or not I actually need what I’m buying, since I can’t realistically use “this” money to pay my rent or utilities or other bills? That’s a perverse incentive. > > No, actually, they took down version 2 because of minor changes in the fee structure (the ATM fee fee dropped from a dollar to eighty-five cents, e.g.). The most recent edition of the brochure was just taken down this past week because the legislature’s actions in adding the new restrictions caused the outdating. If you are willing to slog through the [actual text of the law](http://kslegislature.org/li/b2015_16/measures/documents/hb2258_02_0000.pdf), have at it; if you are not so willing, then don’t ask for cites you can’t be bothered to read. Are you talking about the Wayback Machine link to the obsolete item? If they’ve purposely taken it down, doesn’t that imply that it isn’t what we should go by? A financially sensible person does not live beyond their means and saves enough months of living expenses to get them through employment gaps, living frugally until they’ve built up some reasonable. One may choose to spend one’s money on insurance or not. Sure, failing to do this doesn’t catch up with everyone, but it’s like unprotected sex. Some people will pay a large penalty for playing these odds, while others will look down their noses at them and claim it could never happen to them. Things happen and people make mistakes, but ending up in need of aid is often the result of imperfect planning. Having to accept that there are some restrictions on how you spend and receive the money because _many_ recipients are not making great financial choices is no more unfair than the ordinary unfairness of every single minute of ordinary life. It doesn’t even deserve to be a blip on the radar. In my example, no TANF is involved. I said the adult child had an income, which sometimes actually means a job (crazy huh?). She would be able to use the money she earned on anything legal at all, as much as she wants, whenever she wants. The question was what the parent should do in this situation: pay the utility bills and have them turned back on yet again? Give her cash that would cover that and leave her free to pay them or not? Give her a massive pile of cash that would cover it with piles left to spare? Do nothing at all? As far as needing to empty the card every month at retailers, there is this thing called not buying crap you don’t need just because you are holding money. It sounds radical, but it’s pretty old-fashioned really, and it’s an option available to everyone, rich and poor. I’m not reading any Kansas laws. I don’t live there and never would. You can read it if you are so interested and then cite any relevant parts. I’ll just wait for the river ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/157 "2015-04-08T04:55:39Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Nice way to turn around what I said and blame me for being laid off in 2007 along with tens of millions of other people - what, we’re ALL screw-ups in your mind? > > I learned nothing from being poor I didn’t already know. I’m sorry you can’t accept that and have to make up fantasies about how the fact I’m poor someone proves I’m incapable of learning. Like I said, nice way to twist words. > > Who said I’m NOT improving my situation? I went from part time to full time at my present job in less than a year AND got two raises along the way. What, that’s not good enough for you? Or were you just assuming I wasn’t going anywhere? > > Nice kneejerk assumption there - but then, it’s obvious from your posts in this thread you have nothing but contempt for those you consider beneath you and value humans beings based solely on their income. > > Unlike a lot of people I don’t feel a need to mangle an unpleasant episode in life into some sort of “learning experience” to make myself feel better. Poverty sucks, plain and simple. It’s not a “learning experience” or “opportunity for growth” or some other form of crap. It just sucks. 2007 was eight years ago. You can keep nursing the idea that poor people are all hapless victims with no control over their situations, but what good does that do? It isn’t true and it isn’t useful. I haven’t called anyone a screw-up and I certainly do not have contempt for anyone based on their financial status in either direction. I have much more respect for a simple life than the other options and the things that I value most cannot be had at any price. If you think you are going somewhere, whatever that means, that’s great. I’m glad you feel positively about the future, because that hasn’t come through in your posts. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/158 "2015-04-08T05:19:48Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Why not? It works in MY state. Do you understand the concept of limited resources? And the fungibility of money? If a state’s budget for welfare spending is $20M, and the contract with the EBT vendor is $1M, then the total expenditure is $21M. How the state splits up the $21 million between recipients and vendors is largely irrelevant, because the total cost to the taxpayers remains the same. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/159 "2015-04-08T09:57:45Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Do you understand the concept of limited resources? And the fungibility of money? > > If a state’s budget for welfare spending is $20M, and the contract with the EBT vendor is $1M, then the total expenditure is $21M. How the state splits up the $21 million between recipients and vendors is largely irrelevant, because the total cost to the taxpayers remains the same. Nobody here gives two shits about the total cost to the state. It’s that the recipients are being nickeled and dimed on fees. This is legislation for the sake of being mean. It’s telling poor people: “We don’t like you. And we’re going to fuck up your lives as much as we can just because we can.” ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838/160 "2015-04-08T11:38:51Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > yes, and you know it will. It deters the use of the card conversion to cash. That’s not what “evidence” means. Do you have a study? A report? Some kind of documentation that this has a positive effect? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-kansas-what-happens-welfare-benefits-are-slashed-do-poor-people-leave-the-state-or-what/716838.md?page=9)