The idea of poor people having to forego their Netflix subscriptions does not bring a tear to my eye. Some people don’t have proper food and shelter, so worrying about them makes more sense.
Where was Netflix mentioned?
Actually, I’m thinking you can withdraw $20 and pay a fee, and wait until tomorrow to withdraw another $20 and pay another fee. My ATMs don’t give out $5s at all. So this $25 limit is really a $20 limit.
I don’t know if Kansas has any such laws, but Illinois does have laws limiting check cashing fees and money order fees at currency exchanges. http://www.illinoislegalaid.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.dsp_content&contentID=7432 Again, I only used the money orders for rent; the other bills I did use my checking account for, because they can’t put me out on the street for paying late. (When you’re poor, you also learn things like which utilities will report you to credit bureaus for being late (People’s Gas) and which won’t (ComEd) You learn just how late you can get with each account before you get a disconnection notice, and you let those slide longer as you prioritize the ones that are less forgiving.) For vendors that charge you for paying online (People’s Gas again) I learned that I could go to my bank’s website and pay my bills through there - and then there’s no fee, and they’ll even pay for the stamp for places that require a paper check. But if I was using TANF, I’d still need to get a couple hundred dollars into my checking account to pay my bills by check. And the more days it takes me to do that, the more late fees I’m going to be paying to my utility companies.
Absolutely, I agree. Now, how does this limit do that?
I can tell you what helped *me *to stop doing that…having a larger sum of money at one time, so I could pay my bills on time and escape the late fees, penalties and nickle-and-diming “service” and “installment” fees that poor people are constantly paying because they don’t have access to a lump sum of cash. $14 in ATM fees plus $12.75 for a money order for rent plus $50 in late rent fees plus $25 in late electric bill fees plus $25 in late gas bill fees plus $4 for paying a monthly portion of my car insurance instead of the whole year plus $20 for late car insurance plus $3 for monthly installments on renter’s insurance plus $20 for late renter’s insurance …pretty soon we’re talking real money every month. None of which is actually buying anything but time.
The most needed consumables we struggled to buy included such luxuries as tampons (until I managed to save up a whole $35 to buy a Diva Cup), soap and shampoo (conditioner was cut early on), denture cream, toothpaste, dishwashing soap, laundry detergent and, yes, toilet paper. And the first one to get cut was laundry detergent; you actually can wash things in just water - a clean plunger from the dollar store and a bathtub make a backbreaking washing machine, but it’s free if your landlord includes water in the rent - and you can even have them come out kinda not-smelly, but if you get any stains, you’re screwed. Often I’d shower with clothes in the tub underneath me, so the soap and shampoo that rinsed off me could do double duty on the clothes.
Gambling and fortune tellers? Hardly. I spent two years wearing old scratched out of date glasses because I couldn’t afford contact lens solution. :dubious:
You can get the TANF benefit put into a bank account if you withdraw the money in cash from the EBT card and deposit the cash in the bank (and thereby incur all of the cash withdrawal fees). No, you cannot have the benefit direct-deposited. You are REQUIRED to receive all of your benefits via the card, and pay all fees associated with that card.
Similarly, you can pay rent directly from the card if and only if your landlord takes credit cards. If they don’t, you can pay your rent by withdrawing cash from the card (thereby incurring all of the cash withdrawal fees) and either paying cash or buying a money order or depositing in a bank account and writing a check.
Yes, the system is clearly set up to discourage the use of cash. However, for the very poor, cash is how you buy stuff. If you want to buy clothes at a garage sale, you need cash. If you want to buy dishes at the thrift store, you must make a minimum purchase before you’re allowed to use the card. Want to take a ride on public transit in Topeka or Wichita? Cash fare, please. Want to buy some veggies at the farmer’s market? A few larger vendors take food stamps, but most are strictly cash. Want to buy used furniture on Craigslist? Cash. etc., etc., etc.
Water ain’t free, and in a state where half the counties are under drought emergency and a quarter have already been designated federal drought disaster areas (before we get to the dry season), water ain’t something to be wasted and discarded either.
AnaMen, $90 a month to have access to your money on 36K a year would definitely be more than a mere annoyance. To someone receiving 429 a month, that’s what $ 14.30 would be.
No one has answered this question yet. Why should a bank be expected, let alone required, to provide bank card services, without a fee?
I just caught wind of this thread and find it very interesting.
What I haven’t seen, unless I missed it in my quick reading, is the practical reality of access to food stores or banks or ATMs among recipients. It’s not like everyone can get to the store or the bank every day in a shiny new car that never breaks down.
If you live more than a mile from an ATM or store, have no car, have kids, have a part time job (or 2 or 3), or have medical problems, then it isn’t going to be easy to get to a cash source on a daily basis. Another example of lawmakers who have no idea how people really live.
79
But how do these poor people get to their three jobs, plus school, plus driving to daycare, without a car? In rural Kansas, no less?
Right, but if you cash four paychecks per month, you will pay four fees. How is this substantively different than paying four fees for four ATM withdrawals?
Never been to Kansas, but around here, there are a lot of nearby aunts and grandmas taking turns watching the little ones. As for getting there, lots of people ride with co-workers, get rides from family, or carpool. I have a few facebook friends who ask for rides to work on there, or for someone to take them or their kids to the doctor on occasion. I would be happy to help with these requests if I were available, but I wouldn’t want to be depended upon to take an acquaintance to the bank several times a week.
Yes, I understand what you are saying, but I do not agree.
Seriously? You must be putting us on at this point.
Why do you say that? Why should any business be required to provide services, for free?
Who is expecting a bank to provide such services without a fee? Nobody in this thread that I can see.
The fee for withdrawals is being charged by the EBT card vendor. The vendor, E Funds Corporation, is not a bank. They are a contractor for the state of Kansas, and they are paid by the state of Kansas: so much a month per active card. In addition to this payment, they also receive revenue by charging a fee per transaction. Their contract with the state of Kansas sets forth how much they are allowed to charge per transaction. By requiring beneficiaries to make lots of small transactions rather than a few large ones, the state is ensuring that the contractor will be able to collect a lot more fees.
Now the bank that owns the ATM may charge (in fact, almost certainly will charge) additional fees, and having to divide a withdrawal into lots of small transactions ensures that the ATM usage fees will likewise increase sharply.
Consider this situation: I need to pay $300 in rent. My landlord does not accept credit cards. The ATM charges $2.00 per withdrawal. If I am allowed to withdraw $100/day, I will incur $6.00 in ATM fees and $2.55 in EBT fees, for a total of $8.55.
If I am allowed to withdraw $20/day, I will incur $30.00 in ATM fees and $12.75 in EBT fees, for a total of $42.75 in fees just to pay my rent.
What purpose has been served? The EBT vendor got an extra ten bucks, the bank got an extra $24, I have $34 less to spend, and what good came of it?
I don’t think anyone has said that banks should be required/expected to provide bank card services without a fee. I think people have said that in some other states, the state pays for the fees, so there’s another option. Me, I just think that the people should have the option of withdrawing a reasonable amount in one transaction, with one fee.
Because 4<31. Need an 85 cent fee? (Or whatever, I can’t recall the number and don’t care to go find it.) So charge 85 cents. But let them get a couple hundred dollars at once, so that if they choose to, they can pay one (or four) fees per month to get the cash they need for the month, instead of up to 31 fees per month.
Edit: Or what **slash2k **said better.
Your paycheck is probably more than $20.
Suppose your average paycheck is $100. That’s $400/month. To withdraw that amount from the ATM, you don’t pay four fees; you pay TWENTY. That’s five times as much in fees. Where I come from, that’s substantively different.
I didn’t say this system helped with any of that–I said expecting someone to open a bank account to avoid these fees was not unreasonable.
I also never said poor people all squander their money on gambling and frivolous nonsense. But the person who is not having to do laundry in the tub (been there done that), able to easily buy all needed toiletries, paying late fees, etc. is also not learning anything these experiences teach. Are you still struggling to buy soap and conditioner?
even sven tried to make it all about the banksters in post #7.
:shrug:
And to address WhyNot’s point about some states paying the fees themselves. At the end of the day, what difference does it make? It all comes out of the State’s funds.
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$420 to the recipient, and $0 to the EBT provider. (note, no provider would sign up for that deal).
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$380 to the recipient, and $40 to the EBT provider.
Both cost the State the same $420.
From:
http://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article17115698.html
“Tyson said recipients could withdraw more from a bank.”
This seems to allude to one not needing to withdraw and deposit cash to get the money into a bank account. Probably the bank transfers the money from the card, just as if you were making a purchase of that amount rather than with cash you withdrew from the ATM. You can then pay your landlord straight from your account or by check.
No drought where I am, but I’ll bet most people where you are are depositing urine and fecal matter directly into fresh clean drinking water multiple times daily. Intercept some of that before it gets to the bowl and clean yourself without wasting an extra drop if you’re so worried about the cost.