# Re-litigating Bernie Sanders **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [June 23, 2024, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-litigating-bernie-sanders/1003246 "2024-06-23T22:39:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-litigating-bernie-sanders/1003246/1 "2024-06-23T22:39:26Z")
> [@I feel the DNC considers 2020 to have been a resounding victory when it was anything but](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-feel-the-dnc-considers-2020-to-have-been-a-resounding-victory-when-it-was-anything-but/1003240/27): > > **Moderating** : Drop the Sanders hijack now. > > What the hell? And… > [@I feel the DNC considers 2020 to have been a resounding victory when it was anything but](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-feel-the-dnc-considers-2020-to-have-been-a-resounding-victory-when-it-was-anything-but/1003240/28): > > Let’s not, YET AGAIN, relitigate the Bernie Sanders phenomenon in 2016 in this thread. Drop it now, please. I get that this topic has been done more than once but to say drop the 2016 bit when Sanders was clearly running in 2020 and was winning till Biden stepped in at the last minute is distinctly limiting a very real issue relevant to the OP. I get you do not want to see it done again but then how do you properly discuss the OP when you limit a big chunck of that discussion as off limits? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-litigating-bernie-sanders/1003246/2 "2024-06-23T22:43:16Z")
You and **DrDeth** were about to thoroughly hijack the thread with the same old tired argument. Give it a break. That thread is not about Sanders at all. I feel you both should know better. This is not your first time hijacking discussions with tangentially related 2016 Bernie arguments. Did you notice two mods simultaneously saw and stopped the hijack? There was no flag on this one, that is how blatant your hijack was. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-litigating-bernie-sanders/1003246/3 "2024-06-23T22:45:26Z")
It’s entirely in the past and not germane to any discussion for 2024, despite the poisoned-well assertions made in the discussion in this thread: > [@I feel the DNC considers 2020 to have been a resounding victory when it was anything but](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-feel-the-dnc-considers-2020-to-have-been-a-resounding-victory-when-it-was-anything-but/1003240): > > IMHO, there are 2 narratives that are guiding Democratic strategy this year: First narrative: Incumbency is a massive advantage. I would question this assumption when presidential incumbents have lost nearly half of all reelection races in the past half-century (Ford, Carter, Bush Sr. and Trump all lost,) but that’s not the main thrust of this thread. Furthermore, we’ve never had an 81-year old incumbent, so the normal rules or assumptions about incumbency advantage may not apply. Second n… The OP there has not raised Bernie Sanders there. DrDeth and you did that. Bernie Sanders himself made it clear he is not running in 2024. It’s a dead old horse. Please stop kicking it with respect to discussions for 2024. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-litigating-bernie-sanders/1003246/4 "2024-06-23T22:48:05Z")
My “hijack” was one sentence? I did not “raise Bernie Sanders.” I made a one sentence response. And I didn’t even mention Sanders. This is thought policing. You decided what I would do before I did it. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-litigating-bernie-sanders/1003246/5 "2024-06-23T22:49:06Z")
Sure. I can read what you wrote and replied to. Not thought policing, anticipating. What was this but a hijack in the making. > [@I feel the DNC considers 2020 to have been a resounding victory when it was anything but](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-feel-the-dnc-considers-2020-to-have-been-a-resounding-victory-when-it-was-anything-but/1003240/24): > > > [@I feel the DNC considers 2020 to have been a resounding victory when it was anything but](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-feel-the-dnc-considers-2020-to-have-been-a-resounding-victory-when-it-was-anything-but/1003240/21): > > > > I will bet a shiny new nickel that he was a Sanders supporter. > > Does that make them wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-litigating-bernie-sanders/1003246/6 "2024-06-23T22:52:19Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > My “hijack” was one sentence? Your one sentence _immediately_ bought into the baiting that DrDeth engaged in with the Bernie Sanders hijack. You did already engage in it with that one sentence, no thought policing required. I will agree that DrDeth raised the hijack, but you were right there, barely able to contain your impatience to do battle yet again on this tired old issue. Please just drop it for 2024. If you must relitigate Bernie Sanders’ impact on 2016 or 2020, please do so in a thread dedicated to that discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-litigating-bernie-sanders/1003246/7 "2024-06-23T23:00:00Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I will agree that DrDeth raised the hijack, but you were right there, barely able to contain your impatience to do battle yet again on this tired old issue. I object to your characterization of me. Just for the record. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-litigating-bernie-sanders/1003246/8 "2024-06-23T23:01:25Z")
Objection noted. Though I felt basically the same way. So maybe looks were deceiving, but not isolated. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-litigating-bernie-sanders/1003246/9 "2024-06-23T23:10:14Z")
> **Extremely off-topic for an ATMB thread** > > > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > > > Sanders was clearly running in 2020 and was winning till Biden stepped in at the last minute > > For the record, Biden did not “step in at the last minute”. He announced his campaign in April 2019. > > [Joe Biden - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden#2020_presidential_campaign) > > Nor was Sanders ever “winning” - he only took six states and was utterly trounced by Super Tuesday. > > [Results of the 2020 Democratic Party presidential primaries - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2020_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries#Overview_of_results) ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-litigating-bernie-sanders/1003246/11 "2024-06-23T23:13:15Z")
**Moderating** : And this is inappropriate for an ATMB thread. I believe you should know better. I will hide your post. Please don’t debate subjects not about this message board in #About This Message Board. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-litigating-bernie-sanders/1003246/13 "2024-06-23T23:21:43Z")
Sorry, you are absolutely right. Yes, there is a silly conspiracy theory that the DNC has some sort of absolute power- in that I was right to bring up, since the Op did. But I shouldn’t have mentioned Berniebros. In that I was in error. It led to a small hijack that could have gotten out of control, until you wisely stepped in. Mea Culpa. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-litigating-bernie-sanders/1003246/14 "2024-06-24T00:18:10Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Though I felt basically the same way. So maybe looks were deceiving, but not isolated. > [@I feel the DNC considers 2020 to have been a resounding victory when it was anything but](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-feel-the-dnc-considers-2020-to-have-been-a-resounding-victory-when-it-was-anything-but/1003240/35): > > Moderating, I’ll make this official. @Sage_Rat, please don’t make this about other posters. Keep to what they wrote and facts and your opinions on politics, not what you think they think. From that same thread. Just saying… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-litigating-bernie-sanders/1003246/15 "2024-06-24T00:50:47Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Your one sentence _immediately_ bought into the baiting that DrDeth engaged in with the Bernie Sanders hijack. You did already engage in it with that one sentence, no thought policing required. > > I will agree that DrDeth raised the hijack, but you were right there, barely able to contain your impatience to do battle yet again on this tired old issue. I voted against Sanders, and I assure you: _I could’ve written the same sentence_ — and not out of some barely-contained impatience to do battle yet again on some other topic, but because it strikes me as 100% relevant to the topic at hand. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-litigating-bernie-sanders/1003246/16 "2024-06-24T02:38:43Z")
The thread about the imaginary beliefs of the DNC, or Democrats in general, had nothing to do with Bernie Sanders. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-litigating-bernie-sanders/1003246/17 "2024-06-24T03:34:12Z")
FTR: I do not believe Whack-a-Mole was participating in a Bernie hijack. I took his comment as more of “It doesn’t matter what their motivation is. They are not necessarily wrong.” In other words, pointing out that Dr Deth is using the Appeal to Motivation fallacy. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-litigating-bernie-sanders/1003246/18 "2024-06-24T03:38:05Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Sure. I can read what you wrote and replied to. Not thought policing, anticipating. Sound like a cop that stops you and writes a ticket because they “knew” you were going to speed if they let you continue. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-litigating-bernie-sanders/1003246/19 "2024-06-24T03:43:05Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I took his comment as more of “It doesn’t matter what their motivation is. They are not necessarily wrong.” How would you know? It is a standard post of his, a short one line question, with of any of a number of meanings. “_Does that make them wrong?"_ Wrong about what and who is 'them”? And yes, no matter who it comes from- the silly idea that the DNC can make the voters vote for the candidate of their choosing is ridiculous. And in your post here- who is 'their" and “they”? Who could it be? > [@bobot](#): > > The thread about the imaginary beliefs of the DNC, _Of_ the DNC or _about_ the DNC? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-litigating-bernie-sanders/1003246/20 "2024-06-24T03:54:53Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > How would you know? How would I know how **I** interpreted his statement? Is that your question? > [@DrDeth](#): > > And yes, no matter who it comes from- the silly idea that the DNC can make the voters vote for the candidate of their choosing is ridiculous. Not the point I made. > **Appeal to motive** is a pattern of argument which consists in challenging a thesis by calling into question the motives of its proposer. You felt it important to accuse him of being a Bernie supporter. How does that affect his argument? Even now you admit whether he supported Bernie, Warren, Biden or anyone else his argument has equal validity. He may be right or wrong but that does not have anything to with who he supported. So why even bring it up to begin with? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-litigating-bernie-sanders/1003246/21 "2024-06-24T08:03:56Z")
---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-litigating-bernie-sanders/1003246/22 "2024-06-24T08:05:09Z")
Close for review by @engineer_comp_geek Carrying the debate over to ATMB, is not allowed. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-litigating-bernie-sanders/1003246.md?page=2)