# Re "Marriage is for White People" what is the "swag" that black men have, and white men do not? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 4, 2011, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-marriage-is-for-white-people-what-is-the-swag-that-black-men-have-and-white-men-do-not/595147 "2011-09-04T06:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-marriage-is-for-white-people-what-is-the-swag-that-black-men-have-and-white-men-do-not/595147/1 "2011-09-04T06:09:26Z")
[Per this article](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/09/01/ralph-richard-banks-book-on-black-women-asks-is-marriage-for-white-people.html) What precisely is “swag”? > [@](#): > > Then there are the other pressures: Does going white mean betraying black men? Selling out? Weakening the black familial institution? These are women who’ve beaten the odds to attain education, power, and capital. Who wants to admit she can’t get a man—or that she even needs one? “My two sisters, both college-educated, both single, were very opposed to me even writing about this, to the point that it strained our conversations for some time,” says Banks. “I think there’s a sense that this hits too close to home, and many women don’t want to hear about it.” > > There are also those who do—and many of them confide in Banks their own fears that come with dating “outside.” There’s the worry that white men won’t be attracted to black women; and, in turn, black women aren’t attracted to black men. (People like people who like them.) That white men lack **swag** : Barack Obama has it, George Bush does not. (You get the point, right?) There’s the worry that a nonwhite man won’t understand the most basic parts of black life and culture: things as seemingly mundane as hair (extensions, straightening, putting a scarf on it at night). Or that the children won’t be “black enough.” “These are all issues that black women confront,” Banks says. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-marriage-is-for-white-people-what-is-the-swag-that-black-men-have-and-white-men-do-not/595147/2 "2011-09-04T06:17:09Z")
My guess: It’s short for “swagger.” ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-marriage-is-for-white-people-what-is-the-swag-that-black-men-have-and-white-men-do-not/595147/3 "2011-09-04T06:18:14Z")
It’s typical racemongering nonsense, as is the entirety of the article. People are people; men are men. Comparing an immensely popular black president with an immensely unpopular white proves nothing other than that the author sucks at making comparisons. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-marriage-is-for-white-people-what-is-the-swag-that-black-men-have-and-white-men-do-not/595147/4 "2011-09-04T06:27:08Z")
I’m going to vote for “both answers above me”–it’s swagger, and the article’s tone is disturbing. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-marriage-is-for-white-people-what-is-the-swag-that-black-men-have-and-white-men-do-not/595147/5 "2011-09-04T08:21:08Z")
If white men don’t have swag, then how come all the pop singers keep saying Mick Jagger has it? ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-marriage-is-for-white-people-what-is-the-swag-that-black-men-have-and-white-men-do-not/595147/6 "2011-09-04T08:31:25Z")
Swag is short for “Scientific Wild Ass Guess.” That’s the only way I have ever heard it used, at any rate. I’ve never heard anyone use any sort of contraction for “swagger.” But what do I know? I’m not ruling out any slang that might be used to denote swagger; I just don’t know of any. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-marriage-is-for-white-people-what-is-the-swag-that-black-men-have-and-white-men-do-not/595147/7 "2011-09-04T08:45:38Z")
I find that article, and the comments after it, quite depressing. My best friend is a well-educated black woman, divorced from a black man who wasn’t happy that she continued on the career track after having their daughter. Now, he sure wasn’t ambitious, so it wasn’t like he would have picked up the slack should she have desired to stay home with their daughter. Naturally, there were many complicated issues beyond these things, but as it is she is single now and becoming quite frustrated with what she feels is a lack of black men at the same educational and socioeconomic level. She’s not snobby, as the comments after that article seem to accuse black women of, but she does have certain standards and is not willing to settle for a man who doesn’t fit with her current lifestyle and interests. She would prefer to date black men, and has been doing so since her divorce, but hasn’t met anyone who suits her as a long-term mate. She is beginning to consider dating outside her race, but feels like white men are either intimidated or not interested, and isn’t really sure where to go from here. She’s an amazing, beautiful, and well-rounded woman, and it upsets me that she feels like there’s a good possibility that she’ll end up alone, and that will be that. I admit I don’t have a handle on this issue, in fact, the information seems to be conflicting and the opinions seem very testy when this topic arises. I can see why that might be, but for her sake and other women like her, I think it’s an important conversation that needs to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Becky2844](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Becky2844](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Becky2844)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-marriage-is-for-white-people-what-is-the-swag-that-black-men-have-and-white-men-do-not/595147/8 "2011-09-04T10:14:46Z")
From what I can tell, everybody has a hard time hooking up. The OP covered so many things it’s hard to get a handle on it, but I just know that you can’t settle and expect to be happy. Your feelings (& beliefs) are what you’re going to live with your whole life (maybe tweaked here & there, but basic.) If you have to wait, it’s better to wait. Sometimes a person can come to the realization that that friend they really care about is actually The One. And sometimes you meet somebody & it’s like you’ve been struck by lightning. Either way is good; you just need that mix of passion and respect. The outer wrappings don’t matter—like if they’re outside your culture or race, whatever. It’s the insides that’ll sustain you thru the years, even while their outsides are breaking down.lol Love somebody you can talk to. And a little “swang” has never hurt that “thang.” ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-marriage-is-for-white-people-what-is-the-swag-that-black-men-have-and-white-men-do-not/595147/9 "2011-09-04T12:08:09Z")
I’m still trying to figure out what “going white” means. Marrying a white person? Or some other cultural change? ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-marriage-is-for-white-people-what-is-the-swag-that-black-men-have-and-white-men-do-not/595147/10 "2011-09-04T23:35:26Z")
> [@Becky2844](#): > > The outer wrappings don’t matter—like if they’re outside your culture or race, whatever. It’s the insides that’ll sustain you thru the years, even while their outsides are breaking down.lol Love somebody you can talk to. And a little “swang” has never hurt that “thang.” Just curious, are you a black woman married or otherwise involved outside your race? I think it’s easy for me, as a white woman married to a white man, looking at the world with my particular view, to say what matters for ME, or what I could get past, or let go of, etc. But I wouldn’t be so arrogant as to tell my bff that “outer wrappings don’t matter” while she’s having a sincere, heartfelt struggle in her life that she never expected to encounter. ---
**Author:** ![typoink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@typoink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/typoink)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-marriage-is-for-white-people-what-is-the-swag-that-black-men-have-and-white-men-do-not/595147/11 "2011-09-05T01:35:11Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > But I wouldn’t be so arrogant as to tell my bff that “outer wrappings don’t matter” while she’s having a sincere, heartfelt struggle in her life that she never expected to encounter. Well, yeah, _tact is never out of style_. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-marriage-is-for-white-people-what-is-the-swag-that-black-men-have-and-white-men-do-not/595147/12 "2011-09-05T02:24:47Z")
Seems to me that black women bring a lot of racial baggage to relationships that white guys might not want to deal with, especially when combined with the stereotypical outspokenness of black women. Oh… white men can have plenty of ‘swag’ , but we’re typically not as macho like black or hispanic men. There’s a fine line between macho and sexist/misogynistic, and most white guys don’t want anywhere near that line- white women don’t like it. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-marriage-is-for-white-people-what-is-the-swag-that-black-men-have-and-white-men-do-not/595147/13 "2011-09-05T02:27:18Z")
> [@pullin](#): > > I’m still trying to figure out what “going white” means. Marrying a white person? Or some other cultural change? Having a romantic relationship with a white person. It includes marriage, but I think dating falls under that header too. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-marriage-is-for-white-people-what-is-the-swag-that-black-men-have-and-white-men-do-not/595147/14 "2011-09-05T02:29:01Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Seems to me that black women bring a lot of racial baggage to relationships that white guys might not want to deal with, especially when combined with the stereotypical outspokenness of black women. > > Oh… white men can have plenty of ‘swag’ , but we’re typically not as macho like black or hispanic men. There’s a fine line between macho and sexist/misogynistic, and most white guys don’t want anywhere near that line- white women don’t like it. \*Someone \*didn’t grow up in a football town! ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-marriage-is-for-white-people-what-is-the-swag-that-black-men-have-and-white-men-do-not/595147/15 "2011-09-05T02:54:35Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Seems to me that black women bring a lot of racial baggage to relationships that white guys might not want to deal with, especially when combined with the stereotypical outspokenness of black women. > > Oh… white men can have plenty of ‘swag’ , but we’re typically not as macho like black or hispanic men. There’s a fine line between macho and sexist/misogynistic, and most white guys don’t want anywhere near that line- white women don’t like it. Swagger is one of those things that’s hard to define, but I know it when I see it, and it’s true that not as many white men have it, but some sure do. And I can only speak for this white woman, but I liiiiiiiiiiiiiike it. Actually, so do all of my girlfriends, so I guess I can speak for some of them as well, lol. There’s a big difference between being a misogynist or a sexist and being a sexy, confident man who has…swagger.😉 Also, that about “racial baggage” might be true to some degree, although your stereotyping tells me you probably don’t know nearly as much about it as you think you do. Of course, it’s not surprising that a guy who doesn’t like outspoken women also lacks swagger.😛 ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-marriage-is-for-white-people-what-is-the-swag-that-black-men-have-and-white-men-do-not/595147/16 "2011-09-05T03:25:15Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > I find that article, and the comments after it, quite depressing. It is a bit depressing. A few years back I was eating at a Chinese restaurant when a black woman and white man holding hands walked past the place. Two black males made some snide comments like “I bet he has money.” So apparently interracial dating is a big deal for some people regardless of what some might think. I suspect a similar problem will affect white women in the near future. white women are more likely to graduate high school and college these days. There may be a point where a lot of them don’t marry because they can’t find a suitable mate. ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-marriage-is-for-white-people-what-is-the-swag-that-black-men-have-and-white-men-do-not/595147/17 "2011-09-05T05:28:35Z")
I believe ‘swag’ is this cockiness that some minority men carry; a mixture of confidence and machismo that women respond to. Its a very fine line; some guys are too afraid of pissing off someone they’re interested in and end up coming off meek and wussy, and other guys are simply so full of themselves/narcissists nobody can stand them. Guys with swag can balance these two extremes. Something I’ve noticed is that ‘Nice Guy’-types (you know the kind I mean 😉 ) are overwhelmingly caucasian. I’ve never heard of a black or latino guy complain women only want jerks, etc. I think this might have to do with the concept of privelege; a white guy can get/get away with a lot more because he’s white, but he might interpret his status as due to ‘being nice’. So he thinks women will be attracted to ‘being nice’. But minority guys may be under more pressure to have something to bring to the table, and society isn’t going to simply reward them for ‘being nice’, they have to try harder than a white guy in a lot of ways just to be seen as equal. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-marriage-is-for-white-people-what-is-the-swag-that-black-men-have-and-white-men-do-not/595147/18 "2011-09-05T05:32:41Z")
Machismo. _Blech_. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-marriage-is-for-white-people-what-is-the-swag-that-black-men-have-and-white-men-do-not/595147/19 "2011-09-05T06:26:42Z")
I read an article that proposed that “swagger” was a form of hyper-masculine posturing commonly adopted by certain black men to compensate for their low socioeconomic status. The author claimed that studies typically demonstrated that black American men tended to have lower self esteem than white American men. I’ll try to find the article, but the fact that I can’t remember its title may thwart my Google-fu. On the surface, that seems to make a bit of sense. I’ve noticed that poor white men appear to exhibit similar behavior more often than wealthy white men. However, I also think claims like that are incredibly broad. Swagger is a word like cool. It can mean different things to different people. In addition, not all black people or all white people do the same things for the same reasons. It goes without saying that it sucks that prejudiced people find it necessary to make it difficult for two consenting adults to engage in a relationship. A friend of mine has to pretend to her parents that her boyfriend doesn’t exist because he’s not a Muslim. I can’t imagine what that must be like for her. ---
**Author:** ![GoodOmens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@GoodOmens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GoodOmens)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-marriage-is-for-white-people-what-is-the-swag-that-black-men-have-and-white-men-do-not/595147/20 "2011-09-05T14:04:09Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If white men don’t have swag, then how come all the pop singers keep saying Mick Jagger has it? He’s an honorary black man. So it’s honorary swag. Good enough, though. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-marriage-is-for-white-people-what-is-the-swag-that-black-men-have-and-white-men-do-not/595147.md?page=2)