# re: Origin of "hunky dory" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [April 13, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-origin-of-hunky-dory/578269 "2011-04-13T20:06:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![horsefeathers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c68b51/32.png) [@horsefeathers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/horsefeathers)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-origin-of-hunky-dory/578269/1 "2011-04-13T20:06:53Z")
The term “hunky dory” was commonly used back when I was a kid. It has origins at least as far back as the 1700’s and likely well before then. Though it’s original meaning would be considered somewhat offensive these days, it was an acceptable, even endearing term in my childhood. For those that remember their early American history classes, our nation is considered a melting pot of nationalities, races, religions, and creeds. Most everyone either has a relative or knows the story of someone who landed by boat at Ellis Island from Europe. These European immigrants predominately consisted of Central European folks from the Slovak states and the surrounding areas, including Hungary. Among all immigrants, the Hungarians stood out. These folks have made lasting contributions to our way of life, especially in food and architecture. Their work ethic was phenomenal and their craftsmanship was second-to-none. Many of the oldest, classic buildings on the East Coast are lasting tributes to these industrious immigrants. They came here with nothing and worked hard through much adversity in order to make a new life for their families. They were often overworked, under paid, forced to perform under extremely dangerous conditions, and unfortunately were regularly taken advantage of by their employers. Still, all things considered, they were content with their new life in America and were considered very upbeat with positive attitudes in spite of adversity. The Hungarians were often referred to as “Hunkies” though eventually the term came to be used to refer to Eastern European immigrants in general. Reflecting their tendancy to remain happy and maintain close family clans and national identities, their values dictated that the most important things in life were family and self-worth as defined by your willingness to work hard and support your family. As long as you had a job, food on the table, and were surrounded by family and traditional music, you were considered to be happy as a Hungarian or, “Hunky-dory”. Maybe the “good old days” really were better than the way of life we now subscribe to! ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-origin-of-hunky-dory/578269/2 "2011-04-13T20:24:34Z")
I think this is the column: > **[What’s the origin of “hunky dory”?](https://www.straightdope.com/21342635/what-s-the-origin-of-hunky-dory)** > > A STAFF REPORT FROM THE STRAIGHT DOPE SCIENCE ADVISORY BOARD Or perhaps this: [http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1496/whats-the-origin-of-hunky-dory](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1496/whats-the-origin-of-hunky-dory) [That is actually the same column posted under two different numbered links. Why the repeat?] Also noted this is a Staff Report. ---
**Author:** ![Rico](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rico/32/3582_2.png) [@Rico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rico)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-origin-of-hunky-dory/578269/3 "2011-04-13T20:30:24Z")
\ Moved to Staff Reports forum. CCC \> COSR \ ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-origin-of-hunky-dory/578269/4 "2011-04-13T22:03:22Z")
> [@horsefeathers](#): > > The term “hunky dory” was commonly used back when I was a kid. It has origins at least as far back as the 1700’s and likely well before then. Highly unlikely. Cecil seems to have gotten this one right. From [The Phrase Finder](http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/hunky-dory.html): > [@](#): > > There’s no agreed derivation of the expression ‘hunky-dory’. It is American and the earliest example of it in print that I have found is from a collection of US songs, George Christy’s Essence of Old Kentucky, 1862: > > Hunkey Dorey > > As sung by Christy’s Minstrels. > Air - “Limerick Races” > > One of the boys am I, > That always am in clover; > With spirits light and high, > 'Tis well I’m known all over. > I am always to be found, > A singing in my glory; > With your smiling faces round, > 'Tis then I’m hunkey dorey. > > The Christy Minstrels were a ‘blackface’ minstrel group formed by Edwin Pearce Christy, George Christy’s father. Both men were born in the USA, but Christy is an Irish surname and the tone of the above lyrics, along with the Limerick-based tune, all point to an Irish association with the phrase. Do you have any cite at all for a 1700s origin? > [@](#): > > Though it’s original meaning would be considered somewhat offensive these days, it was an acceptable, even endearing term in my childhood. For those that remember their early American history classes, our nation is considered a melting pot of nationalities, races, religions, and creeds. Most everyone either has a relative or knows the story of someone who landed by boat at Ellis Island from Europe. These European immigrants predominately consisted of Central European folks from the Slovak states and the surrounding areas, including Hungary. Among all immigrants, the Hungarians stood out. These folks have made lasting contributions to our way of life, especially in food and architecture. Their work ethic was phenomenal and their craftsmanship was second-to-none. Many of the oldest, classic buildings on the East Coast are lasting tributes to these industrious immigrants. They came here with nothing and worked hard through much adversity in order to make a new life for their families. They were often overworked, under paid, forced to perform under extremely dangerous conditions, and unfortunately were regularly taken advantage of by their employers. Still, all things considered, they were content with their new life in America and were considered very upbeat with positive attitudes in spite of adversity. The Hungarians were often referred to as “Hunkies” though eventually the term came to be used to refer to Eastern European immigrants in general. Reflecting their tendancy to remain happy and maintain close family clans and national identities, their values dictated that the most important things in life were family and self-worth as defined by your willingness to work hard and support your family. As long as you had a job, food on the table, and were surrounded by family and traditional music, you were considered to be happy as a Hungarian or, “Hunky-dory”. As all etymologists seem to agree, hunky-dory has nothing to do with the Hunky that Hungarians were called. And they all agree that hunky was originally an ethnic slur, used to be offensive, not positive. [hunky](http://www.yourdictionary.com/hunky) > [@](#): > > Slang a person from EC Europe or of Hungarian or Slavic extraction: a vulgar term of hostility and contempt I’m glad you have good memories of that era, but those who were called hunkies, a term dating back to the 1800s, probably don’t. > [@](#): > > Maybe the “good old days” really were better than the way of life we now subscribe to! No, they really weren’t. 0 for 3. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-origin-of-hunky-dory/578269/5 "2011-04-16T17:12:28Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Highly unlikely. Cecil seems to have gotten this one right. > > From [The Phrase Finder](http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/hunky-dory.html): > > Do you have any cite at all for a 1700s origin? > As all etymologists seem to agree, hunky-dory has nothing to do with the Hunky that Hungarians were called. And they all agree that hunky was originally an ethnic slur, used to be offensive, not positive. > > [hunky](http://www.yourdictionary.com/hunky) > I’m glad you have good memories of that era, but those who were called hunkies, a term dating back to the 1800s, probably don’t. > No, they really weren’t. I’ve heard “hunky” used in all manner of ways in my contemporary colloquial speech and never once in a derogatory way, so regardless of what “[Yourdictionary.com](http://Yourdictionary.com)” says, I have evidence of modern usage that ranges from a simple descriptor of nationality (used synonymously with Hungarian) to a type of food, “Hunky Turkey”. At worst, in the common local lexicon, it is a neutral nickname or shorthand for “Hungarian”. That is not to say one couldn’t use it derogatorily, but it doesn’t have these connotations naturally to the local Hungarian Community. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-origin-of-hunky-dory/578269/6 "2011-04-16T22:05:22Z")
It’s obviously possible that the word has changed over time and that it isn’t used as a slur today. But the OP wasn’t talking about today, but the “good old days.” I can’t imagine anybody looking at history and believing that hunky did not begin as an ethnic slur and continued being used as a ethnic slur for decades. My cite was for convenience, but you can check out any dictionary or discussion of ethnic slurs for proof. Here’s [another](http://vernondent.blogspot.com/2006/02/carnival-of-etymologies_16.html) that talks about many similar terms and repeats that hunky is “derogatory”. Hunky is the equivalent of polack and guinea and wop. Some people in the community undoubtedly did use the words as a badge of pride the way queer was rescued from the hands of haters by homosexual groups. But there’s no doubt that queer started off as a slur. Hunky is the same. It represent a foreign Other of a certain type. That’s never a positive in slang. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-origin-of-hunky-dory/578269/7 "2011-04-16T23:16:25Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > It’s obviously possible that the word has changed over time and that it isn’t used as a slur today. > > But the OP wasn’t talking about today, but the “good old days.” I can’t imagine anybody looking at history and believing that hunky did not begin as an ethnic slur and continued being used as a ethnic slur for decades. My cite was for convenience, but you can check out any dictionary or discussion of ethnic slurs for proof. Here’s [another](http://vernondent.blogspot.com/2006/02/carnival-of-etymologies_16.html) that talks about many similar terms and repeats that hunky is “derogatory”. > > Hunky is the equivalent of polack and guinea and wop. Some people in the community undoubtedly did use the words as a badge of pride the way queer was rescued from the hands of haters by homosexual groups. But there’s no doubt that queer started off as a slur. Hunky is the same. It represent a foreign Other of a certain type. That’s never a positive in slang. That article talks about “honkies” and “bohunks”, not hunkys. I disagree, I don’t necessarily believe “Queer” or terms like “Hunky” or “Polack” started out as anything but neutral descriptors of nationality or in the case of “queer” a rather innocent and delicate use of the original word in definition. I’ve known any number of effemeniate homosexuals that are best summed up adjectivally by queer (meaning differing in some odd way from normal or unconventional). If anything queer was probably used to be noninsulting and delicate rather than making any definitive and vulgar statements. These words started out innocently enough, but through abuse and overly zealous and frankly wrong PC linguist hacking they have assumed more vulgarity than they ever truly had. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-origin-of-hunky-dory/578269/8 "2011-04-17T01:24:19Z")
PC linguist hacking? In the 19th century? You’re whooshing me, right? Do you come from some alternate universe of universal love and fellowship toward toward greasy foreigners who are stealing your jobs and befouling your city? Or are you going to blame PC historic hacking for not mentioning to you the hatred groups have had toward outsiders through all of eternity? You must be a lovely person to think that queer was a mere gentle pleasantry against people whose expression of sexuality was illegal and could - and did - get them sentenced to hard labor. It was only those nasty PC people who went back in time and ruined the beautiful word. Or you could do some research on ethnic slurs. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-origin-of-hunky-dory/578269/9 "2011-04-17T04:09:58Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Or you could do some research on ethnic slurs. :smack: What, like the extensive and reliable research you did by quoting “[mydictionary.com](http://mydictionary.com)” and a blog? My point still stands. Polack and Hunky have no indication of being struck from, or arising from, vulgar roots, they are just antiquated names for nationalities, and in the case of queer, a simple adjective. If I call somebody “a dirty, greasy, f-in’ Mexican.”, hypothetically, does that make “Mexican” a slur or is that just a reference to national origin? Similarly, if I call somebody “a dirty, greasy; f-in Polack” does that make “Polack” a slur or is that also just a reference to National origin? If I call somebody "a dirty, greasy, “Bo(hemian) Hun(garian)” does that make “Bohunk” a slur or is that also just a reference to National origin? If I say somebody “Has some curious and queer affectations” is that offensive? Is queer a slur? These words weren’t offensive until they were abused and used in conjuction with other flavoring agents and deemed offensive and put into the “do not use” box by modern political sensibilities that have nothing to do with their usage in the original… the stupidity and wrongness of it all is that people are arrogant enough to think they are changing anything in real life by prohibiting these words and substituting different words in their place. Just another fig leaf. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-origin-of-hunky-dory/578269/10 "2011-04-17T15:03:58Z")
Mencken, The American Language, 1921 > [@](#): > > The French boche, the German hunyadi (for Hungarian), and the old English froggy (for Frenchman) seem lone and feeble beside our great repertoire: dago, wop, guinea, kike, goose, mick, harp, bohick, bohunk, square-head, greaser, canuck, spiggoty, chink, polack, dutchie, scowegian, hunkie and yellow-belly. This disdain tends to pursue an immigrant with extraordinary rancor when he bears a name that is unmistakably foreign and hence difficult to the native, and open to his crude burlesque. Modern and neutral. Right. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-origin-of-hunky-dory/578269/11 "2011-04-17T16:59:40Z")
What were “square-heads”? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-origin-of-hunky-dory/578269/12 "2011-04-17T18:01:57Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > What were “square-heads”? Scandinavians. It could be applied to Dutch or Germans, but generally it was reserved for Swedes or Norwegians. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-origin-of-hunky-dory/578269/13 "2011-04-18T05:04:55Z")
Thanks. Never heard that one - does anyone use it anymore? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-origin-of-hunky-dory/578269/14 "2011-04-18T16:12:26Z")
I don’t know. We should ask our Minnesota Dopers. 🙂 I do remember seeing it as a kid when reading Blackhawk comics. Olaf, the big Swede, was often called a squarehead. By then, it had probably lost the worst of the connotations. The original 40s series might have had worse. Actually all, Chop-Chop, the Chinese guy, looked like [this](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_qPon2S4vHls/SsJ5AS5ij6I/AAAAAAAAC6w/_a3nLasRY8w/s1600-h/blackhawk-chopchop.jpg). But that was within the range of acceptable racism for the time, much like [Ebony White](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Do1wtnYf2yQ/SGG6LWdGiEI/AAAAAAAABpw/ias8Ak2CsFs/s400/Ebony.jpg), the Spirit’s sidekick or [Whitewash Jones](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_cywg7wzfIBs/R78Ot3VsDtI/AAAAAAAADhg/06JpZfj498E/s1600-h/whitewash.jpg), of the Young Allies, was. They were all comic sidekicks, but occasionally heroic and always true. And caricatures probably allowed sales in the South, which would have banned any comic with a realistic depiction, assuming that the artists even thought that way. But they’re the Good Old Days, remember. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-origin-of-hunky-dory/578269/15 "2011-04-22T16:12:46Z")
Through the wonder of Google Books Ngram, I see that “hunky dory” starts showing up in 1867 (it doesn’t have any references to 1862, the year it shows up in more than one minstrel song), then shows up with increasing frequency in magazines immediately after. Sites trying to explain the origin seem to trace the “hunky” part back to Dutch-german roots, and cite examples of "hunky’ and “hunkey” being used as slang for “good” from before 1862. But they concede that they don’t know where the "dory’ part comes from. It’s acknowledged that something sounding like “honchodori” means “Main Street” in Japanese, and is suggested that this is the origin of that elusive “dory” part. The first place to suggest this, by the way, claims that it’s the Main Street or Bazaar in Edo (Tokyo), not Yokohama, as the Legend says. Since Perry 'opened" Japan i 1854 and the expression doesn’t seem to exist prior to 1862 (from available evidence), and didn’t pick up steam until 1867, there was plenty of time for the Japanese term, via sailors, to percolate into the American tongue. Why Cecil dismisses this origin as “unlikely” isn’t at all clear to me. It’s the only plausible explanation for the “-dory” that anyone seems to have suggested. So, take the pre-existing “hunky” = “good” and mix with the Japanese name for Main Street to get the “dory” part, and there’s your expression. I note that there’s a HUGE jump in popularity of the expression in the 1940s, which would’ve been when the US occupied Japan. As for “Hungarian” = “Hunkies”, I grew up in a town largely populated by Eastern European immigrants. I’ve heard the term used, but it was definitely pejorative. The only people who might have used it endearingly would be hunkies themselves, who would have bristled at anyone else using it. And I strongly suspect that the term dates from the big immigrant wave of the very late 19th and early 20th centuries. Before that, there wasn’t a large enough crop of Hungarian immigrants to justify having a slang term for them. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-origin-of-hunky-dory/578269/16 "2011-04-23T04:51:40Z")
Oh, come on! Every group had their opposite the “hunkys”. they might have been Hunkys, but we were Krauts to them, or hillbillies.