# Re people who live without reporting any income what happens re Soc Security etc when they get old?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-people-who-live-without-reporting-any-income-what-happens-re-soc-security-etc-when-they-get-old/778360
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [January 28, 2017, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-people-who-live-without-reporting-any-income-what-happens-re-soc-security-etc-when-they-get-old/778360 "2017-01-28T02:59:10Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2017, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-people-who-live-without-reporting-any-income-what-happens-re-soc-security-etc-when-they-get-old/778360/1 "2017-01-28T02:59:10Z")
Let’s say you have someone who is not mentally compromised who lives at the margins and makes a living by odd jobs, begging, mooching or petty criminality and does not do any tax filing their entire life. Are they due any kind of social security or similar bennies when they get older and need income or medical assistance?
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### Author:  [@peedin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peedin)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2017, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-people-who-live-without-reporting-any-income-what-happens-re-soc-security-etc-when-they-get-old/778360/2 "2017-01-28T03:03:02Z")
Nope. My brother was just like that and was entitled to nothing. Even though he had cancer, he was not eligible for SS disability because he never paid into it or worked enough quarters earning a real income.
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### Author:  [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2017, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-people-who-live-without-reporting-any-income-what-happens-re-soc-security-etc-when-they-get-old/778360/3 "2017-01-28T03:17:54Z")
Yes they can get Supplemental Security Assistance, Food Stamps and Medicaid.
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### Author:  [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2017, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-people-who-live-without-reporting-any-income-what-happens-re-soc-security-etc-when-they-get-old/778360/4 "2017-01-28T03:23:41Z")
In a simplistic nutshell, Social Security payments after a certain age are based upon the earnings for 40 years prior. The amount of earnings is based upon the reported income on the IRS tax return.
If any years’ earnings were not reported or filed, they are not included in the 40 year calculation. So if a drug dealer didn’t file any tax returns and didn’t get any reported income, he doesn’t have any Social Security basis and can’t get any disbursement.
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### Author:  [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2017, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-people-who-live-without-reporting-any-income-what-happens-re-soc-security-etc-when-they-get-old/778360/5 "2017-01-28T03:55:30Z")
> [@PastTense](#):
>
> Yes they can get Supplemental Security Assistance, Food Stamps and Medicaid.
> [@](#):
>
> To qualify for Social Security disability benefits, you must first have worked in jobs covered by Social Security. Then you must have a medical condition that meets Social Security’s definition of disability.
[https://www.ssa.gov/planners/disability/dqualify.html](https://www.ssa.gov/planners/disability/dqualify.html)
> [@](#):
>
> \*\*WHO IS ELIGIBLE FOR SSI?
> \*\*
>
> Anyone who is:
>
> [ul]
> [li]aged (age 65 or older);[/li][li]blind; or[/li][li]disabled.[/li][/ul]
> And, who:
> …
>
> [https://www.ssa.gov/ssi/images/ball80.gif](https://www.ssa.gov/ssi/images/ball80.gif)
>
> applies for any other cash benefits or payments for which he or she may be eligible, (for example, pensions, Social Security benefits);
[SSI Eligibility | Supplemental Security Income (SSI) | SSA](https://www.ssa.gov/ssi/text-eligibility-ussi.htm)
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### Author:  [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2017, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-people-who-live-without-reporting-any-income-what-happens-re-soc-security-etc-when-they-get-old/778360/6 "2017-01-28T04:18:09Z")
It doesn’t even need to be ‘on the margins’. In my family, two uncles who took over the family farm never paid taxes (farm never made money according to younger uncle).
Eventually the younger, college educated one took a job in town for ten years. He gets Medicare and Social Security. Older brother gets nothing from SS, is on now on Medicaid and is living with his daughter. He exhausted proceeds from sale of farm on Medicare (very pricey if you never paid taxes) and nursing home.
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### Author:  [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2017, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-people-who-live-without-reporting-any-income-what-happens-re-soc-security-etc-when-they-get-old/778360/7 "2017-01-28T04:29:10Z")
I read a story about this woman who lived at [Twin Oaks](http://www.twinoaks.org/) commune where like the OP describes, she paid no SS all her life. I guess income and expenses are shared and most people dont file. It then came time when she was in her 60’s and she had NO retirement or SS.
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### Author:  [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2017, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-people-who-live-without-reporting-any-income-what-happens-re-soc-security-etc-when-they-get-old/778360/8 "2017-01-28T04:36:51Z")
> [@Musicat](#):
>
> In a simplistic nutshell, Social Security payments after a certain age are based upon the earnings for 40 years prior. The amount of earnings is based upon the reported income on the IRS tax return.
>
> If any years’ earnings were not reported or filed, they are not included in the 40 year calculation. So if a drug dealer didn’t file any tax returns and didn’t get any reported income, he doesn’t have any Social Security basis and can’t get any disbursement.
They count those years w/o income as a 0, but you can still get SS income if you earned in other years.
My understanding is that if you earned as an example 100k for 10 years, but never paid SS taxes any other time they would average that out and say that you earned an average of 25k a year, or $2100 a month and base your SS income on that $2100/month figure (which would be around 1k or so a month).
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### Author:  [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2017, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-people-who-live-without-reporting-any-income-what-happens-re-soc-security-etc-when-they-get-old/778360/9 "2017-01-28T13:36:46Z")
In addition to the points above about averaging (most of) your reported lifetime income there is a separate eligibility test for the basic (non-disability) SS benefit.
That threshold is 40 quarters = 10 total years’-worth of reported income. So somebody could pay into SS for 9-3/4ths years and still get zero. Once they paid in for 10 total years’-worth then they’d be eligible for the benefit based on their 35-year earnings history.
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### Author:  [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2017, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-people-who-live-without-reporting-any-income-what-happens-re-soc-security-etc-when-they-get-old/778360/10 "2017-01-28T14:10:41Z")
Now I’m curious about stay at home Mom’s who might never earn income, or file.
Do they get any coverage? I’m curious about the reasoning too! Aren’t those who never earn enough to file taxes going to need the most assistance when older? It’s not like they’ve had an opportunity to save anything for later, lacking income and all.
Seems kinda backward to exclude the poorest people, to me. (I never knew how interesting other country’s retirement systems and plans could be. I’ve always just kinda assumed they were all some variation on what my country has! How foolish of me! There must be dozens of ways to address these issues after all.)
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### Author:  [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2017, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-people-who-live-without-reporting-any-income-what-happens-re-soc-security-etc-when-they-get-old/778360/11 "2017-01-28T14:32:48Z")
> [@elbows](#):
>
> Now I’m curious about stay at home Mom’s who might never earn income, or file.
We’ve hardly scratched the surface of the complexities of the Social Security system in this discussion.
If the SAHM was married, she could qualify for [Social Security spousal benefits](https://www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/applying6.html).
If she never married and never worked, she could continue to support herself however she was doing it for the previous 65 years of her life or she could try to collect from other benefit programs, just like any other poor person.
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### Author:  [@UberArchetype](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UberArchetype)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2017, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-people-who-live-without-reporting-any-income-what-happens-re-soc-security-etc-when-they-get-old/778360/12 "2017-01-28T14:48:27Z")
The title of this thread should be: “How Can I get Something for Nothing from the Gubmit”
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### Author:  [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2017, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-people-who-live-without-reporting-any-income-what-happens-re-soc-security-etc-when-they-get-old/778360/13 "2017-01-28T14:48:32Z")
You can get an estimate of your Social Security benefits here: [https://www.ssa.gov/planners/benefitcalculators.html](https://www.ssa.gov/planners/benefitcalculators.html)
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### Author:  [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2017, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-people-who-live-without-reporting-any-income-what-happens-re-soc-security-etc-when-they-get-old/778360/14 "2017-01-28T14:50:25Z")
> [@UberArchetype](#):
>
> The title of this thread should be: “How Can I get Something for Nothing from the Gubmit”
I don’t know about you but my employer(s) and I have been paying into Social Security for over 30 years and still going.
Perhaps you have a different definition of “something for nothing” than I do though.
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### Author:  [@sbunny8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sbunny8)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2017, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-people-who-live-without-reporting-any-income-what-happens-re-soc-security-etc-when-they-get-old/778360/15 "2017-01-28T15:13:26Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#):
>
> I don’t know about you but my employer(s) and I have been paying into Social Security for over 30 years and still going.
>
> Perhaps you have a different definition of “something for nothing” than I do though.
To be fair, the OP is specifically talking about people who have NOT paid into Social Security, which isn’t you. I hypothetical person who was legally required to pay into SS and fraudulently refused to do so and then tried to collect retirement benefits could indeed be described as trying to get something for nothing.
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### Author:  [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2017, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-people-who-live-without-reporting-any-income-what-happens-re-soc-security-etc-when-they-get-old/778360/16 "2017-01-28T15:21:16Z")
> [@elbows](#):
>
> Now I’m curious about stay at home Mom’s who might never earn income, or file.
>
> Do they get any coverage? I’m curious about the reasoning too! Aren’t those who never earn enough to file taxes going to need the most assistance when older? It’s not like they’ve had an opportunity to save anything for later, lacking income and all.
>
> Seems kinda backward to exclude the poorest people, to me. (I never knew how interesting other country’s retirement systems and plans could be. I’ve always just kinda assumed they were all some variation on what my country has! How foolish of me! There must be dozens of ways to address these issues after all.)
Stay at home Mom’s what? What possession of a stay at home Mom are you referring to?
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### Author:  [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2017, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-people-who-live-without-reporting-any-income-what-happens-re-soc-security-etc-when-they-get-old/778360/17 "2017-01-28T15:23:01Z")
> [@sbunny8](#):
>
> To be fair, the OP is specifically talking about people who have NOT paid into Social Security, which isn’t you. I hypothetical person who was legally required to pay into SS and fraudulently refused to do so and then tried to collect retirement benefits could indeed be described as trying to get something for nothing.
Good point and well taken.
Not sure what the OP is after then.
What social safety nets exist for the indigent?
Can and do crooks claim SS?
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### Author:  [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2017, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-people-who-live-without-reporting-any-income-what-happens-re-soc-security-etc-when-they-get-old/778360/18 "2017-01-28T15:31:11Z")
> [@elbows](#):
>
> Now I’m curious about stay at home Mom’s who might never earn income, or file.
>
> Do they get any coverage? I’m curious about the reasoning too! Aren’t those who never earn enough to file taxes going to need the most assistance when older? It’s not like they’ve had an opportunity to save anything for later, lacking income and all.
>
> Seems kinda backward to exclude the poorest people, to me. (I never knew how interesting other country’s retirement systems and plans could be. I’ve always just kinda assumed they were all some variation on what my country has! How foolish of me! There must be dozens of ways to address these issues after all.)
I don’t know all the details, but as long as the working spouse is alive, the non-working spouse gets half the SS of the working spouse. So if the working spouse is earning $1200/month in SS, the spouse who didn’t earn income makes $600/month for $1800/month total for both of them.
I have no idea how those figures change if the non-working spouse gets a divorce or if the working spouse dies.
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### Author:  [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2017, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-people-who-live-without-reporting-any-income-what-happens-re-soc-security-etc-when-they-get-old/778360/19 "2017-01-28T15:33:41Z")
nm
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### Author:  [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2017, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-people-who-live-without-reporting-any-income-what-happens-re-soc-security-etc-when-they-get-old/778360/20 "2017-01-28T16:35:46Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#):
>
> I have no idea how those figures change if the non-working spouse gets a divorce or if the working spouse dies.
A divorced, unmarried spouse can still claim the regular spousal benefit of 50% (but only from one prior spouse). At death, the surviving divorced spouse gets your full benefit. I believe the marriage must have lasted for ten years.
Medicare eligibility is the same for a non-working spouse.
(If there is more than one divorced spouse, each can qualify for a regular spousal benefit)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-people-who-live-without-reporting-any-income-what-happens-re-soc-security-etc-when-they-get-old/778360.md?page=2)