# Re prison work gangs are these seen as punishments or rewards by prisoners? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 6, 2008, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-prison-work-gangs-are-these-seen-as-punishments-or-rewards-by-prisoners/476042 "2008-12-06T21:15:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-prison-work-gangs-are-these-seen-as-punishments-or-rewards-by-prisoners/476042/1 "2008-12-06T21:15:58Z")
Is labor on a prison work gang outside prison seen as a reward (ie being outside is preferable to being in prison) or a type pf punishment (ie menial hard labor) by prisoners? > [@](#): > > [Work gang](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chain_gang)-A group of prisoners working outside prison walls under close supervision, but without chains, is a work gang. Their distinctive attire (stripe wear or orange vests or jumpsuits) serves the purpose of displaying their punishment to the public, as well as making them easily identifiable if they attempt to escape. Whatever deterrent effect that may have on potential criminals, the lack of actual chains makes a modern work gang much safer than a traditional chain gang ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-prison-work-gangs-are-these-seen-as-punishments-or-rewards-by-prisoners/476042/2 "2008-12-06T21:23:06Z")
Punishment. Unless the rate of pay is superior to easier jobs within the walls. Which it generally is not. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-prison-work-gangs-are-these-seen-as-punishments-or-rewards-by-prisoners/476042/3 "2008-12-06T21:45:19Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Punishment. Unless the rate of pay is superior to easier jobs within the walls. > > Which it generally is not. So how is the prison administration going to compel a prisoner to be on a work gang if he has the option to stay in his cell, and you can’t physically coerce him? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-prison-work-gangs-are-these-seen-as-punishments-or-rewards-by-prisoners/476042/4 "2008-12-06T21:57:13Z")
> [@astro](#): > > So how is the prison administration going to compel a prisoner to be on a work gang if he has the option to stay in his cell, and you can’t physically coerce him? Make failure to comply a rule violation which will get him loss of privileges, and possibly time in the segregation unit. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-prison-work-gangs-are-these-seen-as-punishments-or-rewards-by-prisoners/476042/5 "2008-12-06T22:21:37Z")
I disagree with Qadgop on this one. All prisoners are required to work so sitting around is not an option. The choice is between working what is perceived as a good job and a bad job. Most jobs outside of the prison are seen as good jobs even if there’s more actual work involved. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-prison-work-gangs-are-these-seen-as-punishments-or-rewards-by-prisoners/476042/6 "2008-12-06T22:23:26Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Make failure to comply a rule violation which will get him loss of privileges, and possibly time in the segregation unit. Do they actually do this? That’s awful close to slavery, even for the penal system. You’re a doctor in a prison, right? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-prison-work-gangs-are-these-seen-as-punishments-or-rewards-by-prisoners/476042/7 "2008-12-06T23:28:17Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I disagree with Qadgop on this one. All prisoners are required to work so sitting around is not an option. The choice is between working what is perceived as a good job and a bad job. Most jobs outside of the prison are seen as good jobs even if there’s more actual work involved. I took the question as being on a road gang, or being inside as a swamper or on the maintenance crew. I hear anecdotally that our boys hate the road gangs. But perhaps my sampling is skewed. However, a number of the minimum security guys work for outside landscaping companies (usually for regular wages) and those jobs are highly sought after. However, we don’t have chain gangs in Wisconsin, so I can’t really comment on the desirability of that sort of assignment. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-prison-work-gangs-are-these-seen-as-punishments-or-rewards-by-prisoners/476042/8 "2008-12-06T23:31:07Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Do they actually do this? That’s awful close to slavery, even for the penal system. You’re a doctor in a prison, right? I’m a doctor in a prison. Failure to report for your assigned work will have consequences. If you claim illness you eventually need to see the nurse or doctor to verify that claim. If you refuse your assignments, you run afoul of the rules, and lose privileges. Up to and including the privilege of living in your usual unit/dorm/barracks. How is that slavery? If you do a crappy job you’ll probably eventually get fired, noone will hire you, and you’ll have no income beyond the 4 cents a day you get for providing valuable carbon dioxide to the air. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-prison-work-gangs-are-these-seen-as-punishments-or-rewards-by-prisoners/476042/9 "2008-12-06T23:41:22Z")
> [@](#): > > Do they actually do this? That’s awful close to slavery, even for the penal system. It’s not just close. It pretty much is slavery (or its less controversial cousin “involuntary servitude”). The Constitution allows this if a person has been properly convicted of a crime. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-prison-work-gangs-are-these-seen-as-punishments-or-rewards-by-prisoners/476042/10 "2008-12-06T23:48:47Z")
I have read that many victim’s families or victims themselves sue the prisoner and garnish the wages they earn inside. I read about Jeffrey Dahmer being mad 'cause they took his quarter a day and he had to find “Other” ways of getting coffee and cigarettes. Though he never wrote what that “other” was ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-prison-work-gangs-are-these-seen-as-punishments-or-rewards-by-prisoners/476042/11 "2008-12-07T00:06:56Z")
Punishment is not the only goal of prison in America. The history of the U.S. prison system is closely intertwined with the idea of _reformation_ and work has been part of the reformatory program pretty much since the beginning. Hence the term “penitentiary” to refer to a prison: a place of penance where the wrongdoer would be reborn as a productive citizen. Through the history of the American prison, we’ve wrestled philosophically between punitive and reformatory goals. In any event, from the point of view of the prisoners, it can be either a punishment or a reward. For example, in Maricopa county, AZ, convicted drunk drivers have to dig graves for deceased homeless alcoholics. This work is clearly intended as punishment and is non-optional for those so convicted, as I understand it. On the flip side, check out the wholesome participants in the UNICOR (Federal Prison Industries) [call center program](http://www.unicor.gov/services/contact_helpdesk/) (the all-american alternative to outsourcing!) There’s no doubt that a mind-occupying, climate controlled desk job is very preferable to the prisoners than doing nothing. You generally have to have excellent behavior to participate - there, work is more of a reward.