# Re-reading authors of your youth & realizing they are really hacks **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 21, 2006, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-reading-authors-of-your-youth-realizing-they-are-really-hacks/377333 "2006-10-21T14:33:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2006, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-reading-authors-of-your-youth-realizing-they-are-really-hacks/377333/81 "2006-10-24T12:50:38Z")
Hack is a very specific form of bad writing. Hack is churning out the same formulaic crap to turn a buck. Some bad writers aren’t hacks. Some hacks ain’t bad writers. For instance, just because you went back and reread Tolkien and now don’t like his style doesn’t make him a hack. Anne Rice is not a hack, she is just a bad writer. Hacks don’t write 700 page novels (actually she has been a hack as well, churning out erotic fiction for a buck under other names but that is not what she is most known for). I think most of you have the wrong idea of what a hack is. I don’t like Vonnegut but he is no hack. hack2  /hæk/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hak] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1. a person, as an artist or writer, who exploits, for money, his or her creative ability or training in the production of dull, unimaginative, and trite work; one who produces banal and mediocre work in the hope of gaining commercial success in the arts: As a painter, he was little more than a hack. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2006, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-reading-authors-of-your-youth-realizing-they-are-really-hacks/377333/82 "2006-10-24T12:58:03Z")
Roget. Anything by Roget. He seemed so deft and clever when I was young, but now I’ve got him beat, standing on my head. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2006, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-reading-authors-of-your-youth-realizing-they-are-really-hacks/377333/83 "2006-10-24T14:03:24Z")
[QUOTE=Sevastopol] Roget. Anything by Roget. He seemed so deft and clever when I was young, but now I’ve got him beat, standing on my head. [/QUOTE] I still think his Thesaurus is pretty good. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2006, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-reading-authors-of-your-youth-realizing-they-are-really-hacks/377333/84 "2006-10-24T15:30:44Z")
[QUOTE=featherlou] Mine would have to be Tanith Lee. “Silver Metal Lover,” anyone? On a slightly different note, I bought a mess of ancient paperbacks at a garage sale a couple of summers ago, with old stories by many famous authors, and I was amazed at just how _good_ some of them are. I mean, “I can’t put this book down until I’ve read it cover to cover” good. There is a reason that many of those old farts were given the Grandmaster of Sci Fi title. [/QUOTE] “Silver Metal Lover” is only one novel written by the extremely prolific Tanith Lee. Back in the 80’s, I was working at a company with much promise that was being driven into the ground by its nutso trust-fundie founder. So I escaped into the works of Tanith Lee–everything available on the paperback racks or at Half Price Books. I haven’t kept up with her massive output but I’ve re-read some of my oldies with great pleasure. Don’t know whether I could make it through her “Birthgrave Trilogy” again–but I might try. “The Silver Metal Lover” wasn’t one of my favorites; “Don’t Bite the Sun” & its sequel “Drinking Sapphire Wine” tell a more interesting “teenage girl versus Utopia” story. “Red As Blood: Tales of the Sisters Grimmer” remains one of my favorite anthologies. “Sabella, the Bloodstone: A Science Fiction Vampire Story” is witty fun. I could go on; Lee works in several genres. Tanith Lee is just one reason we oldsters own so many tattered paperbacks. The Good Stuff keeps going out of print. ---
**Author:** ![burundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ec8ea/32.png) [@burundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burundi)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2006, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-reading-authors-of-your-youth-realizing-they-are-really-hacks/377333/85 "2006-10-24T16:23:31Z")
I loved the Dragonlance books when I was a kid. Now…bleah. Like others, I was also into Piers Anthony and Anne McCaffrey. The older I get, the less interested I am in sword and sorcery. It’s got to be exceptional, like George RR Martin or Ellen Kushner (to give two wildly varying examples) for me to bother. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2006, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-reading-authors-of-your-youth-realizing-they-are-really-hacks/377333/86 "2006-10-24T16:48:09Z")
[QUOTE=burundi] The older I get, the less interested I am in sword and sorcery. [/QUOTE] From this thread and the other one on books/authors that _have_ held up, it’s beginning to look like the rule of thumb is that _Children’s fantasy that you enjoyed reading as a child is still worth reading as an adult, but “adult” fantasy that you enjoyed as a youngster probably won’t hold up when you’re older._ ---
**Author:** ![Boulter\_s\_Canary](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Boulter\_s\_Canary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boulter_s_Canary)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2006, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-reading-authors-of-your-youth-realizing-they-are-really-hacks/377333/87 "2006-10-24T20:18:57Z")
[QUOTE=Bridget Burke] “Silver Metal Lover” is only one novel written by the extremely prolific Tanith Lee. Back in the 80’s, I was working at a company with much promise that was being driven into the ground by its nutso trust-fundie founder. So I escaped into the works of Tanith Lee–everything available on the paperback racks or at Half Price Books. I haven’t kept up with her massive output but I’ve re-read some of my oldies with great pleasure. Don’t know whether I could make it through her “Birthgrave Trilogy” again–but I might try. “The Silver Metal Lover” wasn’t one of my favorites; “Don’t Bite the Sun” & its sequel “Drinking Sapphire Wine” tell a more interesting “teenage girl versus Utopia” story. “Red As Blood: Tales of the Sisters Grimmer” remains one of my favorite anthologies. “Sabella, the Bloodstone: A Science Fiction Vampire Story” is witty fun. I could go on; Lee works in several genres. Tanith Lee is just one reason we oldsters own so many tattered paperbacks. The Good Stuff keeps going out of print. [/QUOTE] May I recommend **When the Lights Go Out**? It’s set in an English coastal resort out of season and is eccentric, endearing and all-out weird. Imagine a mix of **Brighton Rock \*\* and The Wicker Man \*\* (but it’s too individualistic to be _really_ like either. There are hints of Powell and Pressburger’s film A Canterbury Tale**, too.) As you can no doubt tell I’m having trouble describing the thing. :rolleyes: Just _read_ it!. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2006, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-reading-authors-of-your-youth-realizing-they-are-really-hacks/377333/88 "2006-10-24T21:22:46Z")
[QUOTE=Bridget Burke] Tanith Lee is just one reason we oldsters own so many tattered paperbacks. The Good Stuff keeps going out of print. [/QUOTE] Amen! I bought the Don’t Bite the Sun omnibus just because my copies were falling apart. Anthony, Moorecock, McCaffery: those are hacks. I pick up any of their books now, and they’re just dreadful; I used to like them, but am older and wiser now. Once upon a time I also enjoyed a book called “Spellfire”, by Ed Greenwood. I am now heartily ashamed of this. :o ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2006, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-reading-authors-of-your-youth-realizing-they-are-really-hacks/377333/89 "2006-10-24T21:30:46Z")
[QUOTE=Boulter’s Canary] May I recommend **When the Lights Go Out**? It’s set in an English coastal resort out of season and is eccentric, endearing and all-out weird. Imagine a mix of **Brighton Rock \*\* and The Wicker Man \*\* (but it’s too individualistic to be _really_ like either. There are hints of Powell and Pressburger’s film A Canterbury Tale**, too.) As you can no doubt tell I’m having trouble describing the thing. :rolleyes: Just _read_ it!. [/QUOTE] Thanks. I went to add the book to my ever-expanding “Saved Items: To Buy Later” at Amazon. But the cheapest paperback edition was $15.00, so I ordered it. I’ve been meaning to catch up on Lee’s more recent works… How DARE anyone call Tanith Lee a **hack**? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2006, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-reading-authors-of-your-youth-realizing-they-are-really-hacks/377333/90 "2006-10-24T22:35:59Z")
I don’t know if Tanith Lee is a hack, but I read “Silver Metal Lover” recently, and after having loved it as a yute, I found it clichéd and obvious on re-reading. I didn’t think we were just staying within the strict, dictionary definition of “hack” - just generally saying which authors haven’t stood the test of time for us, and Tanith Lee is one for me. ---
**Author:** ![MacSpon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/34f0e0/32.png) [@MacSpon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacSpon)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2006, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-reading-authors-of-your-youth-realizing-they-are-really-hacks/377333/91 "2006-10-24T23:04:47Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] I was coming into the thread to mention Madeline l’Engle, actually. “A Wrinkle in Time” was great when I was eleven. I picked up a couple of her books lying around the house (MRs. RickJay has an enormous collection of science fiction and fantasy work" and I was appalled. It was terrible writing. Within six pages I was cheering for Charles Wallace to be run over by a semi. [/QUOTE] Funny thing: after another recent thread that slammed l’Engle, I went back and re-read the series (Wrinkle, Wind, Planet, Waters). I thought … that the first book was rather simplistic. Apart from that, all four still have plenty of magic for me. ---
**Author:** ![MacSpon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/34f0e0/32.png) [@MacSpon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacSpon)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2006, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-reading-authors-of-your-youth-realizing-they-are-really-hacks/377333/92 "2006-10-24T23:08:12Z")
[QUOTE=Ghanima] Piers Anthony - I found his Xanth and Incarnations of Immortality books entertaining as a teen, but the last time I read one of his books I realized he is a completely sophomoric hack. All women are sluts, hags or bitches. Lots of bosoms bouncing and skintight dresses. Total shite. [/QUOTE] The sad thing is, Piers _used_ to be a good writer, before he started aiming specifically for the pubescent-teen crowd. Some of his early books, though, are still good. _Macroscope_, for example, still stands as (IMO) a classic of the SF field. ---
**Author:** ![1010011010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/ea666f/32.png) [@1010011010](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1010011010)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2006, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-reading-authors-of-your-youth-realizing-they-are-really-hacks/377333/93 "2006-10-24T23:38:51Z")
Dickens was a hack. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-reading-authors-of-your-youth-realizing-they-are-really-hacks/377333/94 "2006-10-25T14:22:32Z")
Dickens had gems of brilliance buried in mountains of verbosity. In other words, he could have used a good editor. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![slortar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@slortar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slortar)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-reading-authors-of-your-youth-realizing-they-are-really-hacks/377333/95 "2006-10-25T14:40:05Z")
[QUOTE=MacSpon] The sad thing is, Piers _used_ to be a good writer, before he started aiming specifically for the pubescent-teen crowd. Some of his early books, though, are still good. _Macroscope_, for example, still stands as (IMO) a classic of the SF field. [/QUOTE] Yeah, I really like his old science fiction as well. It’s not great, but it can be pretty solid. ---
**Author:** ![slortar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@slortar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slortar)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-reading-authors-of-your-youth-realizing-they-are-really-hacks/377333/96 "2006-10-25T14:41:38Z")
[QUOTE=rjung] I’ll nominate William Gibson for _Neuromancer;_ it impressed me the first time I read it, but later re-readings just revealed it to be a confusing mess. I’m almost tempted to nominate Robert Anton Wilson for _Illuminatus!,_ except the books in that series are so trippy I just know he’s doing it deliberately. 🙂 [/QUOTE] I tried to reread the Illuminatus trilogy recently. Made it about a hundred pages in and gave up on it. I can understand why it appealed to me as a kid, but as an adult, I had to conclude that surreal crap is still crap. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-reading-authors-of-your-youth-realizing-they-are-really-hacks/377333/97 "2006-10-25T14:41:53Z")
[QUOTE=MacSpon] The sad thing is, Piers _used_ to be a good writer, before he started aiming specifically for the pubescent-teen crowd. Some of his early books, though, are still good. _Macroscope_, for example, still stands as (IMO) a classic of the SF field. [/QUOTE] Which, of course, makes him the very definition of a hack. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-reading-authors-of-your-youth-realizing-they-are-really-hacks/377333/98 "2006-10-25T14:43:48Z")
I normally hate when people say “I can’t believe nobody mentioned”, BUT we are well into page 2, and so. . . I can’t believe nobody mentioned Tom Robbins yet. (a search on “robbins” turned up nubbins) Also, as someone else mentioned, Richard Brautigan. ---
**Author:** ![burundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ec8ea/32.png) [@burundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burundi)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-reading-authors-of-your-youth-realizing-they-are-really-hacks/377333/99 "2006-10-25T17:30:23Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by **Thudlow Boink** > _From this thread and the other one on books/authors that have held up, it’s beginning to look like the rule of thumb is that Children’s fantasy that you enjoyed reading as a child is still worth reading as an adult, but “adult” fantasy that you enjoyed as a youngster probably won’t hold up when you’re older._ I think there’s probably a lot to that. I wonder why. I guess the cliches so common in “adult” fantasy aren’t cliches to a kid yet. And kids are less aware of bad writing, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-reading-authors-of-your-youth-realizing-they-are-really-hacks/377333/100 "2006-10-25T18:49:31Z")
I was coming in here to say **Terry Brooks** whom I could have turned into a nerd-dork in my teens when I discovered the Shannara series and just loved them. When I rediscovered the books and decided to re-read the series, either it has lost its its thrill or I’d grown up. Probably the first. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-reading-authors-of-your-youth-realizing-they-are-really-hacks/377333.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-reading-authors-of-your-youth-realizing-they-are-really-hacks/377333.md?page=6)