# Re Rehnquist's illness - What is it about power makes people hang on like barnacles? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 18, 2005, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-rehnquists-illness-what-is-it-about-power-makes-people-hang-on-like-barnacles/290760 "2005-02-18T18:46:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-rehnquists-illness-what-is-it-about-power-makes-people-hang-on-like-barnacles/290760/21 "2005-02-19T02:37:53Z")
I claim no special knowledge of the Chief Justice, but a sense of duty and a simple love of what he is doing is a sufficient rational. When you talk about Sup Ct Justices who hung on long after their mental powers failed you have to look no father than William O. Douglas. For a Justice who soldiered on long after his physical powers had failed, look at Thurgood Marshal. They kept going because they thought they contributed something important to the court and it’s function. I suspect the Chief Justice’s seeming determination to continue is based on the same sort of thinking. He does hold a position in which the dignity, seriousness and importance of the institution and its roll in the life of the nation are much more compelling that the heavy whip and sharp spur of individual ego. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-rehnquists-illness-what-is-it-about-power-makes-people-hang-on-like-barnacles/290760/22 "2005-02-19T03:19:47Z")
You’re thinking political liberal vs. political conservative, not judicial liberal vs. judicial conservative. There’s more than a slight overlap in the concepts, but not a one-for-one correspondence. Rehnquist is wedded to the rule of law; it’s his life. I won’t take the opportunity to badmouth Bush, much less ascribe it to Rehnquist, but I get the distinct impression that the judicial-conservative Chief Justice is not altogether happy with the way the political-conservative President is behaving. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-rehnquists-illness-what-is-it-about-power-makes-people-hang-on-like-barnacles/290760/23 "2005-02-19T03:31:06Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > You’re thinking political liberal vs. political conservative, not judicial liberal vs. judicial conservative. There’s more than a slight overlap in the concepts, but not a one-for-one correspondence. Rehnquist is wedded to the rule of law; it’s his life. I won’t take the opportunity to badmouth Bush, much less ascribe it to Rehnquist, but I get the distinct impression that the judicial-conservative Chief Justice is not altogether happy with the way the political-conservative President is behaving. This is what I was suspecting. A judicial coneservative would believe in stare decisis. If the politicians don’t like how the Supreme Court interprets the Constitution, they can always amend the Constitution. Many Republicans favor conservative judicial activism. They want judges that vote based on their political ideology. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-rehnquists-illness-what-is-it-about-power-makes-people-hang-on-like-barnacles/290760/24 "2005-02-19T03:55:49Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > I won’t take the opportunity to badmouth Bush, much less ascribe it to Rehnquist, but I get the distinct impression that the judicial-conservative Chief Justice is not altogether happy with the way the political-conservative President is behaving. What gives you this impression, any specific statements or actions, or are you just extrapolating from what you think are the idealologies of the two men? ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-rehnquists-illness-what-is-it-about-power-makes-people-hang-on-like-barnacles/290760/25 "2005-02-19T04:28:27Z")
> [@Billdo](#): > > Before condemning Rhenquist for hanging on like a barnacle, perhaps you should consider that this is also a medical question. > > I have no knowledge of his diagnosis or prognosis, but if his cancer is the sort where he has a good chance of a significant recovery after several months of chemotherapy, there is really no reason for him to retire because of a short interruption in his service. > [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Thyroid Cancer is one hundred percent curable. Radioactive iodine. Hits the thyroid, takes it out. There are four main types of thyroid cancer. There seems to be little doubt that the one he has is [anaplastic thyroid carcinoma](http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000352.htm), an invariably fatal and usually rapidly progressive disease. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-rehnquists-illness-what-is-it-about-power-makes-people-hang-on-like-barnacles/290760/26 "2005-02-19T04:42:06Z")
> [@Malodorous](#): > > What gives you this impression, any specific statements or actions, or are you just extrapolating from what you think are the idealologies of the two men? Neither – the latter, but based on a lot of small, in-themselves-insignificant comments made by the two men that lead me to see Rehnquist as wedded to strict-constructionist conservatism (which includes upholding explicitly guaranteed rights) vs. Bush as working from his own vision of what America ought to be, and being willing to be very activist in seeking out that future. (Is that sufficiently non-pejorative while characterizing firmly?) ---
**Author:** ![uglybeech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/82dd89/32.png) [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-rehnquists-illness-what-is-it-about-power-makes-people-hang-on-like-barnacles/290760/27 "2005-02-19T05:02:43Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > There are four main types of thyroid cancer. There seems to be little doubt that the one he has is [anaplastic thyroid carcinoma](http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000352.htm), an invariably fatal and usually rapidly progressive disease. Well, there may be [some doubt](http://www.thyroid-cancer.net/topics/what+is+thyroid+lymphoma?CMS_Session=28ff9679be8bc825d69b4905777d8a43). But I would say that the indicators are very very strong that that’s what he’s got. But that doesn’t mean squat as far as whether he should retire. Plenty of ill people have worked at their jobs and worked well almost until the day they’ve died. In Boston radio talk show host David Brudnoy had his last farewell show from the hospital _the night before he died of cancer._ Rehnquist’s a judge, so he’s a mind worker, not an athlete. Who says he needs to be physically 100% to do his job well? ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-rehnquists-illness-what-is-it-about-power-makes-people-hang-on-like-barnacles/290760/28 "2005-02-19T07:08:45Z")
> [@uglybeech](#): > > Well, there may be [some doubt](http://www.thyroid-cancer.net/topics/what+is+thyroid+lymphoma?CMS_Session=28ff9679be8bc825d69b4905777d8a43). But I would say that the indicators are very very strong that that’s what he’s got. Just because thyroid lymphoma tends to have a worse prognosis and grows more rapidly than the much more common papillary and follicular thyroid cancers, does make it a viable diagnosis in this case. Firstly, lymphoma of the thyroid tends to complicate the course of long-standing thyroiditis (a condition which Rehnquist has never been said to have). Second, the treatment he’s receiving is not used for thyroid lymphoma. Third, the need for a tracheostomy would not have been present if this were thyroid lymphoma since lymphomas almost always respond, at least, initially, to chemotherapy and/or radiation. In other words, accelerated or abrupt obstruction of the trachea would not be expected to occur in thyroid lymphoma. Fourth, the prognosis for thyroid lymphoma, while not great, is hardly bleak (“bleak” being a characterization used repeatedly by medical consultants when discussing Rehnquist’s outlook). Finally, [this site](http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1266011/posts) and many others quote knowledgeable experts as agreeing with me on the diagnosis of anaplastic carcinoma. In passing, I’ll note that thyroid lymphoma was not the fourth type of thyroid cancer I was alluding to in my previous post. I was getting at so-called medullary thyroid carcinoma which prognosis, similar to lymphoma, is not great but neither is it as miserable as we keep hearing about Rehnquist’s. ---
**Author:** ![uglybeech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/82dd89/32.png) [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-rehnquists-illness-what-is-it-about-power-makes-people-hang-on-like-barnacles/290760/29 "2005-02-19T08:08:07Z")
**KarlGauss** : Well I think they’re right and you’re right. So I don’t want to go to the wall on this but just to explain my thinking and to be technically precise - You said the treatment he’s receiving is not used for thyroid lymphoma - can you expand? AFAIK all we know for sure is that he had a tracheotomy, chemotherapy and radiation (not what kinds). And again, AFAIK (IANAD) theoretically those could all also be used in the presence of a thyroid lymphoma (tracheotomies can be used to treat complications of any thyroid surgery I think). Otherwise until someone gives more specific information I have to think there’s technically a shadow of a doubt. (One doctor in your article admitted other diagnoses couldn’t be ruled out). The biggest argument against this though is that since everyone’s speculating it’s anaplastic - I’d imagine that if it were a lymphoma (which has a better prognosis) they’d come out and say it. I do concede I did consider Rehnquist was my one sure thing in my entry in [SDMB’s Celebrity Death Pool 2005.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=289505) ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-rehnquists-illness-what-is-it-about-power-makes-people-hang-on-like-barnacles/290760/30 "2005-02-19T16:08:31Z")
Thank you, Poly, for clearly and concisely stating my opinion on the subject in terms so clear I understand what I was thinking, myself. That’s exactly how I feel the matter lies. Might be wrong, but remember, we were expecting two retirements last presidency, got none. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2005, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-rehnquists-illness-what-is-it-about-power-makes-people-hang-on-like-barnacles/290760/31 "2005-02-20T05:16:06Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I think a lot of it has to do with a sense of self-importance. It sure speaks to the value of a mandatory retirement age, though. Would 75 be all that unreasonable??? A mandatory retirement age of 70 for Federal Court and High Court judges was approved by constitutional referendum in Australia in 1977. This was partially in response to the example of Justice McTiernan who had refused to retire from the High Court, even though he was in his eighties, in poor health and weelchair bound. It’s said that the Chief Justice of the time refused to allow wheelchair access to be included in the new High Court building, which was under construction in Canberra at the time, specifically to ensure Justice McTiernan’s retirement. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2005, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-rehnquists-illness-what-is-it-about-power-makes-people-hang-on-like-barnacles/290760/32 "2005-02-20T05:47:25Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Would 75 be all that unreasonable??? It works for us Canadians. ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2005, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-rehnquists-illness-what-is-it-about-power-makes-people-hang-on-like-barnacles/290760/33 "2005-02-20T06:12:20Z")
## A “principled jurist”? “A man of the law”? Are we forgetting Bush v Gore? This person along with four other whores on our highest court traded in their integrity, and the integrity of the institution they serve, in order to put Bush in the Oval Office. They deserve nothing but our contempt until they either confess their transgression and do what little they can to make amends or lay mouldering unlamented in their graves. No, strike that. Death won’t absolve their guilt. These people deserve to have their graves desecrated. They spit on the law they were entrusted to uphold to further their policy preferences. I don’t wish death on the guy but once he’s gone at least we know he can’t do any more damage. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2005, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-rehnquists-illness-what-is-it-about-power-makes-people-hang-on-like-barnacles/290760/34 "2005-02-20T06:34:54Z")
> [@2sense](#): > > ## A “principled jurist”? “A man of the law”? Are we forgetting Bush v Gore? This person along with four other whores on our highest court traded in their integrity, and the integrity of the institution they serve, in order to put Bush in the Oval Office. They deserve nothing but our contempt until they either confess their transgression and do what little they can to make amends or lay mouldering unlamented in their graves. No, strike that. Death won’t absolve their guilt. These people deserve to have their graves desecrated. They spit on the law they were entrusted to uphold to further their policy preferences. I don’t wish death on the guy but once he’s gone at least we know he can’t do any more damage. I was under the impression the overall conclusion of the after the fact recounts done by various Florida newspapers (and not Bush friendly ones either) was (begrudgingly) that Bush had actually won a slim majority of votes counted. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2005, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-rehnquists-illness-what-is-it-about-power-makes-people-hang-on-like-barnacles/290760/35 "2005-02-20T07:32:09Z")
> [@astro](#): > > I was under the impression the overall conclusion of the after the fact recounts done by various Florida newspapers (and not Bush friendly ones either) was (begrudgingly) that Bush had actually won a slim majority of votes counted. That was how the media spun it, but according to the final report from The Media Consortium Florida Ballot Project, if **all ballots statewide** were recounted, Gore would have won in _every_ scenario. The key, of course, is that Gore _didn’t_ push for a total state-wide recount, but only wanted a recount in Broward, Miami-Dade, Palm Beach and Volusia counties. If you only recount those precincts – but leave the inaccurate initial numbers from the rest of Florida alone – then Bush wins. You can read the [full report here](http://www.aei.org/docLib/20040526_KeatingPaper.pdf) (PDF). Table 1 summarizes the goodies, which I will summarize because the forum sucks at tables: > [@](#): > > _Table 1: Candidate Outcomes Based on Potential Recounts in Florida_ > > **Review of All Ballots Statewide** (Never Undertaken) > > - Standard as set by each county Canvassing Board during their survey > – Gore, by 171 votes > > - Fully punched chads and limited marks on optical ballots > – Gore, by 115 votes > > - Any dimples or optical mark > – Gore, by 107 votes > > - One corner of chad detached or optical mark > – Gore, by 60 votes ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2005, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-rehnquists-illness-what-is-it-about-power-makes-people-hang-on-like-barnacles/290760/36 "2005-02-20T11:39:33Z")
> [@2sense](#): > > ## A “principled jurist”? “A man of the law”? Are we forgetting Bush v Gore? This person along with four other whores on our highest court traded in their integrity, and the integrity of the institution they serve, in order to put Bush in the Oval Office. They deserve nothing but our contempt until they either confess their transgression and do what little they can to make amends or lay mouldering unlamented in their graves. No, strike that. Death won’t absolve their guilt. These people deserve to have their graves desecrated. They spit on the law they were entrusted to uphold to further their policy preferences. I don’t wish death on the guy but once he’s gone at least we know he can’t do any more damage. I have strongly negative opinions on _Bush v Gore_, too, but do a search for **Bricker** ’s (IIRC; it may have been **Dewey** ’s) analysis of it as a legitimate 14th Amendment equal protection/one-man-one-vote case – it’s worth reading! ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2005, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-rehnquists-illness-what-is-it-about-power-makes-people-hang-on-like-barnacles/290760/37 "2005-02-20T19:40:46Z")
> [@astro](#): > > I was under the impression the overall conclusion of the after the fact recounts done by various Florida newspapers (and not Bush friendly ones either) was (begrudgingly) that Bush had actually won a slim majority of votes counted. As **rjung** alluded to, your misunderstanding is no coincidence. The news consortium report came out in the wake of 9/11 and newspapers across the country buried the lead. You had to read the actual stories and connect the dots for yourself in order to realize that the headline “Bush Still Wins” was pure hogwash. ## In any case, that report came out long after Bush v Gore was decided. The decision effectively ended the vote counting with Bush holding a slight lead, handing him the election. Had the US Supreme Court not halted the statewide count that the Florida Supreme Court had ordered, or to put it another way- if the US Supreme Court had not prevented a more accurate count from occuring, the outcome might have been different. Or it might not. They didn’t know and rather than take a chance on a Gore victory they discarded their principles. Like I said, they don’t deserve any respect. > [@Polycarp](#): > > I have strongly negative opinions on _Bush v Gore_, too, but do a search for **Bricker** ’s (IIRC; it may have been **Dewey** ’s) analysis of it as a legitimate 14th Amendment equal protection/one-man-one-vote case – it’s worth reading! ## That sounds interesting. I will look for it when I have more time. Unless the worthy who posted it would care to provide us a link himself? ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-rehnquists-illness-what-is-it-about-power-makes-people-hang-on-like-barnacles/290760/38 "2005-02-21T05:05:54Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > No, the “gold rings” (actually stripes) were placed on the robes by [Rehnquist himself.](http://lawlibrary.ucdavis.edu/LAWLIB/jan95/0651.html) He got the idea after watching Gilbert & Sullivan’s “Lolanthe,” where a magestrate’s costume had similar stripes. > > That’s right, kids – the Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court conducts his official bizness while playing dress-up. And we laughed at that Arkansas juror who went to court [in a _Star Trek_ uniform…](http://edition.cnn.com/US/fringe/9603/03-14/trek.html) All that proves is that Rehnquist has a sense of humor and rjung doesn’t. What else is new? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-rehnquists-illness-what-is-it-about-power-makes-people-hang-on-like-barnacles/290760/39 "2005-02-21T05:22:09Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > All that proves is that Rehnquist has a sense of humor and rjung doesn’t. > > What else is new? Why is Rehnquist’s funny for looking ridiculous and **rjung** not for making light of it? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-rehnquists-illness-what-is-it-about-power-makes-people-hang-on-like-barnacles/290760/40 "2005-02-21T05:37:11Z")
I wonder how **astorian** would feel if Rehnquist had delivered the ruling on _Bush v. Gore_ while wearing a full Klingon regalia… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-rehnquists-illness-what-is-it-about-power-makes-people-hang-on-like-barnacles/290760.md?page=1)