# Re stereotype of Australian plants & animals being more poisonous than average - True or not? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 27, 2012, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-stereotype-of-australian-plants-animals-being-more-poisonous-than-average-true-or-not/614096 "2012-02-27T00:10:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-stereotype-of-australian-plants-animals-being-more-poisonous-than-average-true-or-not/614096/21 "2012-02-27T05:34:06Z")
Anecdote: I am 46 years old and have lived in Australia my entire life. I have never been harmed by any kind of wildlife and have never suffered anything worse than a mosquito bite. I do like the country, and regularly visit it, and happily wander around wearing shorts. I’m pretty social, know a LOT of people, and have met a great many people from all walks of life over the years. To the best of my knowledge, I’ve never met anyone who has been harmed in any way by Australian wildlife. Which is not to say it doesn’t happen, but I’d expect that more Americans have been killed by bears than Australians have been killed by our native wildlife. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-stereotype-of-australian-plants-animals-being-more-poisonous-than-average-true-or-not/614096/22 "2012-02-27T05:35:23Z")
> [@madrabbitwoman](#): > > I think we have some pretty poisonous plants from which a poison has been derived (a number of local fauna have an immunity I understand) The poison is commonly called 1080 [Sodium fluoroacetate - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_fluoroacetate) Sodium fluoroacetate (1080) is produced in a lab from inorganic chemicals. to the best of my knowledge it has never been derived from any plant, Australian or otherwise. Do you have any evidence for this claim? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-stereotype-of-australian-plants-animals-being-more-poisonous-than-average-true-or-not/614096/23 "2012-02-27T05:39:28Z")
It’s in the cite. More specifically, [right here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_fluoroacetate#Occurrence). ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-stereotype-of-australian-plants-animals-being-more-poisonous-than-average-true-or-not/614096/24 "2012-02-27T05:46:29Z")
> [@](#): > > In no sense are foxes, cats or dingos restricted to the north of anywhere. They are found throughout the mainland. etc I guess it is the way I phrase things, but you are not disagreeing with most of what I wrote, in many cases it is a matter of where you put the association of the caveats in the sentences. I also assume you have not had the dis-pleasure of comparing a honey bee sting to a European wasp sting. Dingos don’t get in to the South - there is a rather famous fence. Where you distinguish North and South is of course a bit fluid. There is a rather big centre too. Walking in long grass is about not being able to see where you are walking, not about what might prefer to lie there or not. ---
**Author:** ![madrabbitwoman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c37758/32.png) [@madrabbitwoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madrabbitwoman)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-stereotype-of-australian-plants-animals-being-more-poisonous-than-average-true-or-not/614096/25 "2012-02-27T05:54:46Z")
> [@](#): > > It occurs naturally as an anti-herbivore metabolite in various plants but can also be produced synthetically. > [@](#): > > fluoroacetate occurs naturally in at least 40 plants in Australia, Brazil, and Africa. It was first identified in the poison leaf (gifblaar) Dichapetalum cymosum by Marais in 1944.[4][5] As early as 1904, colonists in Sierra Leone used extracts of Chailletia toxicaria which also contains fluoroacetic acid or its salts to poison rats.[6][7] It is believed that the compound is even present in tea leaves in tiny amounts.[8] Several native Australian plant genera contain the toxin, including: Gastrolobium, Gompholobium, Oxylobium, Nemcia and Acacia. > **[Invasive species in Australia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasive_species_in_Australia)** > > Invasive species are a serious threat to endemic Australian species, and an ongoing cost to Australian agriculture. Numerous species arrived with European maritime exploration and colonisation of Australia and steadily since then. There is ongoing debate about the potential benefits and detriments of introduced species; some experts believe that certain species, particularly megafauna such as deer, equids, bovids, and camels, may be more beneficial to Australia's ecosystems than they are de > [@](#): > > Foxes are often baited, although the use of 1080 (sodium fluoroacetate) is also known to affect native animals such as the Quoll and Tasmanian Devil, though the most common and effective method is shooting. 1080 is ideal in the South-West of Australia because a native plant contains the same toxin - therefore most native animals have developed immunity to it. [http://www.agric.wa.gov.au/objtwr/imported\_assets/content/pw/chem/1080\_use.pdf](http://www.agric.wa.gov.au/objtwr/imported_assets/content/pw/chem/1080_use.pdf) > [@](#): > > Natural occurrence of 1080 > Fluoroacetate, the active ingredient of 1080, > occurs naturally in several toxic plants in Australia, > South Africa, and South America. At least 40 such > species occur in Australia, with most confined to > the south-west of Western Australia. All of these > species are legumes but most are from the genus > Gastrolobium, with one Acacia, and two species of > Nemcia. Some of the Gastrolobiums can produce > considerable amounts of 1080 (e.g. G. bilobum, G. > parviflorum; \>2500 mg per kg dry weight of leaves). > Fluoroacetate also occurs at very low concentrations > in tea leaves, and guar gum, a common constituent > of a variety of foodstuffs. > [@](#): > > Sensitivity of native animals > Many native animals in Western Australia have coevolved > with fluoroacetate-bearing plants, and as a > consequence, are often quite tolerant to 1080. That > is, they can generally eat some of the toxic plants > or animals containing 1080 (fluoroacetate) with little > risk of being poisoned. However, in contrast, the > same genus/species of animals in south-eastern > Australia, where the toxic plants do not occur, are > generally much more sensitive to 1080 (Table 2). > Thus, the enhanced tolerance of our native animals > makes 1080 a particularly useful and target specific > toxin in WA. However, provided that best practice > procedures are followed, enhanced tolerance to > 1080 is not a prerequisite for safe and effective > baiting programs. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-stereotype-of-australian-plants-animals-being-more-poisonous-than-average-true-or-not/614096/26 "2012-02-27T06:52:03Z")
So once again I ask, **madrabbitwoman**. Do you have any evidence for this claim that 1080 is derived or ever has been derived from plants? Because your own link says exactly the opposite: that it is derived from acetic acid and sodium fluoride. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-stereotype-of-australian-plants-animals-being-more-poisonous-than-average-true-or-not/614096/27 "2012-02-27T07:05:01Z")
> [@Francis\_Vaughan](#): > > I guess it is the way I phrase things, but you are not disagreeing with most of what I wrote Yes I bloody well am. Much of what you wrote is nonsense. > [@](#): > > I also assume you have not had the dis-pleasure of comparing a honey bee sting to a European wasp sting. I have been bitten by European wasps and I have been bitten by native wasps. I’ll take the European wasp overs several native species any day. > [@](#): > > Dingos don’t get in to the South - there is a rather famous fence. OK, so you clearly have no idea about the distribution of dingoes. [Have a look at a map.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dingo-Distribution-Fleming.png). As you can see, they are common through to southern Victoria. Anybody claiming that there are no dingoes in the south has presumably never left the cities. > [@](#): > > Where you distinguish North and South is of course a bit fluid. No, it isn’t. Unless you define Mt Gambier as Northern Australia. > [@](#): > > Walking in long grass is about not being able to see where you are walking, not about what might prefer to lie there or not. Which is even worse advice. Snakes are well camouflaged. You chances of seeing one in short grass aren’t that good, which is why I can work in the field literally for weeks without seeing a snake, yet catch half a dozen a night in traps. ---
**Author:** ![madrabbitwoman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c37758/32.png) [@madrabbitwoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madrabbitwoman)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-stereotype-of-australian-plants-animals-being-more-poisonous-than-average-true-or-not/614096/28 "2012-02-27T08:30:46Z")
This topic is about poisonous Ozzie plants and animals. 1080 occurs naturally as an anti-herbivore metabolite in various Australian plants but can also be produced synthetically. [http://www.healthdiscussions.org/hd/index.php?t=1080+poison](http://www.healthdiscussions.org/hd/index.php?t=1080+poison) Honestly I am having trouble finding much history about 1080 so would you like to pm me some cites yourself then we can get over this derailment. I remember reading somewhere that it was first produced in the 1800s but cannot find that. Most of the info I can access relates to the 1950s or later. So feel free to educate me. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-stereotype-of-australian-plants-animals-being-more-poisonous-than-average-true-or-not/614096/29 "2012-02-27T09:18:08Z")
It’s not a case of educating you. You made a claim that 1080 is produced from plants. i wanted to know if there is any evidence for that, because it contradicts everything that I know about the subject. It contradicts your own reference that you seem to believe confirms that the poison is made from plants. Since there is no evidence that 1080 has ever been obtained from plants and you can’t remember why you believe that it ever was, we can assume it is untrue. ---
**Author:** ![lynne-42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lynne-42/32/3138_2.png) [@lynne-42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynne-42)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-stereotype-of-australian-plants-animals-being-more-poisonous-than-average-true-or-not/614096/30 "2012-03-08T12:40:41Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > And despite all the above, hardly anyone actually dies from wildlife here: > > Human Deaths in Australia Between 1980-1990, Inclusive (from Stevens & Paxton, 1992) > > Crocodile Attacks 8 > > Shark Attacks 11 > > Snakes 0 > > Spiders 0 > > Bee Stings 20 Ahhh - the voice of reason - thank you, **Askance**! I’ve reduced it just to the animals and would like to point out that the most deadly - the bee - is not the native bee. It is the introduced honey bee. Our most deadly wild animal is an import from Europe! Oh, and please note the spider kill rate of 0. Zero. None. Got to get a good word in for my beloved spiders. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-stereotype-of-australian-plants-animals-being-more-poisonous-than-average-true-or-not/614096/31 "2012-03-08T12:53:16Z")
> [@GreedySmurf](#): > > Don’t let Warner Brothers fool you. 😃 > > The Tasmanian Devil is actually pretty small, a bit smaller than say…a badger? and is primarily a scavenger not a predator. > > Although it might come after you with it’s infectious face cancer! :eek: They definitely SOUND scarier than they look. If anything, a lot of Australian farmers and ranchers LIKE the Tasmanian devils, because they clean up carrion. If, say, a sheep or other animal dies in a field, the devils will come along and eat the WHOLE thing (even the bones). If they didn’t, blowflies would be all over the carcass in no time, which the ranchers regard as a much WORSE menace than the devils could ever be. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-stereotype-of-australian-plants-animals-being-more-poisonous-than-average-true-or-not/614096/32 "2012-03-08T13:14:35Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > What about the Tasmanian Devil; isn’t that a rough analog to wolves? Or are you not counting Tasmania? You may be thinking of the extinct Tasmanian Tiger/Wolf, also called a [Thylacine](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thylacine). ---
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-stereotype-of-australian-plants-animals-being-more-poisonous-than-average-true-or-not/614096/33 "2012-03-08T14:24:28Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > It’s not a case of educating you. You made a claim that 1080 is produced from plants. i wanted to know if there is any evidence for that, because it contradicts everything that I know about the subject. It contradicts your own reference that you seem to believe confirms that the poison is made from plants. > > Since there is no evidence that 1080 has ever been obtained from plants and you can’t remember why you believe that it ever was, we can assume it is untrue. madrabbitwoman has already provided the quote (from wikipedia) > [@](#): > > fluoroacetate occurs naturally in at least 40 plants in Australia, Brazil, and Africa. **It was first identified in the poison leaf (gifblaar) Dichapetalum cymosum by Marais in 1944**.[4][5] As early as 1904, **colonists in Sierra Leone used extracts of Chailletia toxicaria which also contains fluoroacetic acid or its salts to poison rats.** [6][7] So, 1080 is a toxin, identified by a chemist from a plant extract. It may be synthesised commercially, but it is _derived_ from plants (in the same way that aspirin is derived from plants, but no-one makes it from an extract of willowbark). No-one claimed it was **produced** from plants. Si ---
**Author:** ![Moris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moris/32/2846_2.png) [@Moris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moris)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-stereotype-of-australian-plants-animals-being-more-poisonous-than-average-true-or-not/614096/34 "2012-03-08T15:16:13Z")
[QUOTE=Eliahna] I can’t look up spiders for you because I’m too phobic to look at pictures of them while collecting data. [/QUOTE] For Christ’s sake, don’t get tempted! I clicked on it; it’s a collection of nightmarish pictures so huge I was unable to follow the text. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-stereotype-of-australian-plants-animals-being-more-poisonous-than-average-true-or-not/614096/35 "2012-03-08T15:21:35Z")
Obviously, the average Australain living in a suburb of Sydney has no reason to live in terror of poisonous plants or animals. The deadly snakes that DO inhabit Australia are usually in the Outback, where there aren’t many people to begin with. But in Darwinian terms, it makes sense that there would be a lot of venomous snakes in a region like the Outback. In areas where prey animals are plentiful, snakes don’t particularly NEED venom, and constrictors will have no trouble finding food. In the rain forest, say, if one mouse or rat or frog gets away, a snake can always find another. But in a place like the Outback, food is mighty hard to come by, and a snake can’t afford to let a mouse or rat get away. Venom is much MORE valuable there, because it insures that the rodent in a snake’s mouth isn’t going anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-stereotype-of-australian-plants-animals-being-more-poisonous-than-average-true-or-not/614096/36 "2012-03-08T15:37:28Z")
The quoted numbers for Australian wildlife deaths are pretty small, but then the population of Australia is pretty small (at least relative to the US). Any comparison of the per capita rates? I guess someone should factor out bees, though. In the anecdote \<\> data department: as a USian, I don’t know anyone who was killed by wildlife either. Other than the occasion shark attack, I’m hard pressed to remember any stories of people dying from wildlife attacks, which, given the 24 hour news cycle, leads me to think it’s pretty rare in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-stereotype-of-australian-plants-animals-being-more-poisonous-than-average-true-or-not/614096/37 "2012-03-08T21:21:08Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Obviously, the average Australain living in a suburb of Sydney has no reason to live in terror of poisonous plants or animals. The deadly snakes that DO inhabit Australia are usually in the Outback, where there aren’t many people to begin with. No. While the Fierce Snake is an “Outback” species, the next 6 most poisonous snakes, all the potentially deadly spiders, all the potentially deadly fish, all the potentially deadly plants and so forth are all found in coastal regions. > [@](#): > > But in Darwinian terms, it makes sense that there would be a lot of venomous snakes in a region like the Outback. In areas where prey animals are plentiful, snakes don’t particularly NEED venom, and constrictors will have no trouble finding food. In the rain forest, say, if one mouse or rat or frog gets away, a snake can always find another. Which doesn’t explain why, with the exception of the fierce snake, all the other highly venomous snakes are to be found in rainforests. ---
**Author:** ![lynne-42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lynne-42/32/3138_2.png) [@lynne-42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynne-42)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-stereotype-of-australian-plants-animals-being-more-poisonous-than-average-true-or-not/614096/38 "2012-03-10T09:28:46Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > Once again this isn’t in any sense true. Australia’s worst insects are honey bees, which are exotic. The runner up are the native bull ants,which kill almost as many people as bees. This surprised me as I haven’t heard of ant bites being so deadly - and worries me because I am allergic to jumping jack ant bites. The only figures I could find were from: Ant sting mortality in Australia, Forbes McGain, Kenneth D. Winkel, 2001, which gave 6 ant related fatalities in 20 years (1980–1999), 5 in Tassie and one in NSW. That doesn’t come close to bee stings, if Askance’s figures are correct - 20 bee sting deaths in 11 years. I am really interested in this, as a Victorian with ant bite allergy. I had never thought of it as deadly. Do you have any other data, **Blake**? ---
**Author:** ![Corcaigh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Corcaigh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corcaigh)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-stereotype-of-australian-plants-animals-being-more-poisonous-than-average-true-or-not/614096/39 "2012-03-10T10:47:30Z")
I have two Aussie friends, one lives in the suburbs and the other out in the sticks, I have refused to visit them on grounds there are too many ways for nature to kill me over there. They both find this idea hilarious. But then one of them will tell you that before she touches anything, she looks to make sure there isn’t a black widow or other spider where she’s going to put her hand, or foot, or other part of her anatomy. The other one (who lives out in the sticks) had to be on the lookout for crocs after the flooding a few years ago. ---
**Author:** ![tellyworth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@tellyworth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tellyworth)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-stereotype-of-australian-plants-animals-being-more-poisonous-than-average-true-or-not/614096/40 "2012-03-10T11:58:30Z")
> [@Corcaigh](#): > > But then one of them will tell you that before she touches anything, she looks to make sure there isn’t a black widow or other spider where she’s going to put her hand, or foot, or other part of her anatomy. Do you mean redback spider? They are quite common, and considered dangerous. But there hasn’t been a death from a redback bite in over 50 years. According to Wiki, bites are fairly common but only 20% require treatment of any kind, and hardly any need the antivenom. So if by “dangerous” you mean “less deadly than ants”, then sure, watch out for redbacks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-stereotype-of-australian-plants-animals-being-more-poisonous-than-average-true-or-not/614096.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-stereotype-of-australian-plants-animals-being-more-poisonous-than-average-true-or-not/614096.md?page=3)