# Re: Tarred and Feathered, 29-Apr-1988 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [January 13, 2006, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-tarred-and-feathered-29-apr-1988/339807 "2006-01-13T12:47:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mrsmuckers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9e5f3/32.png) [@mrsmuckers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrsmuckers)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2006, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-tarred-and-feathered-29-apr-1988/339807/1 "2006-01-13T12:47:36Z")
In reference to the column “Has anyone actually ever been tarred and feathered?” from 29-Apr-1988, Jesus tells a story in the new testament of the Bible (The Message version) about a man who planted a vineyard and turned it over to farmhands to mind it. Later, when he sent servants to check out the progress, one of the servants was “tarred and feathered.” (Mark 12, v. 4) Perhaps this represents the earliest form of this type revelry. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2006, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-tarred-and-feathered-29-apr-1988/339807/2 "2006-01-13T12:57:32Z")
Please provide a link to the column you’re referring to. It’s standard practice here in CCC. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2006, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-tarred-and-feathered-29-apr-1988/339807/3 "2006-01-13T13:38:59Z")
(The reference is to [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3\_020.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_020.html)) No. I was not familiar with “The Message”, but a quick look at it shows that calling it a “translation” is a bit generous. “Tarred and feathered” isn’t in the Greek at all. ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2006, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-tarred-and-feathered-29-apr-1988/339807/4 "2006-01-14T15:50:19Z")
> [@John W. Kennedy](#): > > (The reference is to [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3\_020.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_020.html)) > > No. > > I was not familiar with “The Message”, but a quick look at it shows that calling it a “translation” is a bit generous. “Tarred and feathered” isn’t in the Greek at all. Out of curiosity, then… what is? ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2006, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-tarred-and-feathered-29-apr-1988/339807/5 "2006-01-14T17:23:39Z")
I believe the conventional term is “paraphrase”. A rather loose paraphrase, in this case. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2006, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-tarred-and-feathered-29-apr-1988/339807/6 "2006-01-14T23:09:17Z")
I think maybe the full question was supposed to be interpreted as “What is in the Greek then?”. ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-tarred-and-feathered-29-apr-1988/339807/7 "2006-01-15T00:09:21Z")
> [@naita](#): > > I think maybe the full question was supposed to be interpreted as “What is in the Greek then?”. Heh, indeed it was. I should have quoted just the bit I wanted answered. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-tarred-and-feathered-29-apr-1988/339807/8 "2006-01-15T01:38:14Z")
KJV > [@](#): > > And again he sent unto them another servant; and at him they cast stones, and wounded [him] in the head, and sent [him] away shamefully handled. In Greek > [@](#): > > kai palin apesteilen proV autouV allon doulon: kakeinon ekefaliwsan kai htimasan. 12:4 και παλιν απεστειλεν προς αυτους αλλον δουλον κακεινον λιθοβολησαντες εκεφαλαιωσαν και απεστειλαν ητιμωμενον You take it from here. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-tarred-and-feathered-29-apr-1988/339807/9 "2006-01-15T20:48:05Z")
The KJV is very close to the Greek. The only place you might get “tarred and feathered” from is the “shamefully handled”, but the Greek just doesn’t refer to a specific act. ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-tarred-and-feathered-29-apr-1988/339807/10 "2006-01-15T21:15:53Z")
Thanks. I remember that scene, now. I’d never heard “The Message’s” translation before. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-tarred-and-feathered-29-apr-1988/339807/11 "2006-01-15T21:47:18Z")
To be fair, the KJV is occasionally guilty of the same thing. Matthew 27:44, “The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth,” is just about as free and easy. On the other hand, it’s one of the very few translations that honestly renders “one that pisseth against the wall” (a Hebrew idiom for “male human”) at 1 Samuel 25:22 and 1 Samuel 25:34. But “The Message” is just full of loose wording. Not exactly inaccurate, as far as the general meaning goes, but way off if you want any idea of the original Hebrew or Greek wording. ---
**Author:** ![joellercoaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9bd4f/32.png) [@joellercoaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joellercoaster)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-tarred-and-feathered-29-apr-1988/339807/12 "2006-01-16T15:08:04Z")
On the “didn’t die out until after World War I” tip, it didn’t die out until considerably later than that - if at all. Publicity hound John Vincent was tarred and feathered by anonymous members of the local BASE jumping community for flagrant site-burning within living memory, and BASE didn’t get going until the latter half of last century. Sure, even they probably thought it was retro at the time, but it definitely happened. ---
**Author:** ![SiXSwordS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@SiXSwordS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SiXSwordS)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-tarred-and-feathered-29-apr-1988/339807/13 "2006-01-16T17:36:59Z")
Maybe this should be in a new thread, but what is the purpose of the feathers? I remember discussing this with an English teacher while reading Huck Finn. I thought the idea was that the calamus (quill?) of the feather would stick into the burned skin causing more irritation. Like rubbing salt into a wound. The bit about the sagebrush makes it sound like the point would be to make it difficult to clean off. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-tarred-and-feathered-29-apr-1988/339807/14 "2006-01-16T18:10:18Z")
You have to remember that in sociological terms, this come under the heading of “Jes’ a bunch of good ol’ boys havin’ a little fun.” The feathers make the victim look ridiculous, and at the same time provide a subliminal impression that the tar is there just to stick the feathers on, and not as an instrument of torture. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-tarred-and-feathered-29-apr-1988/339807/15 "2006-01-16T22:07:03Z")
**mrsmuckers** , welcome to the SDMB. 🙂 We’re not being mean. 🙂 We just grind info like corn, in bulk quantities. The result is carefully processed, with good results. What edition of the Bible did your paraphrased quote come from? ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-tarred-and-feathered-29-apr-1988/339807/16 "2006-01-16T22:46:57Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > What edition of the Bible did your paraphrased quote come from? He said it in the first place – it’s called “The Message”. It’s available online, which is why, even though I never heard of it before, I was able to diagnose it as heavily paraphrased. ---
**Author:** ![bdb777](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@bdb777](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdb777)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-tarred-and-feathered-29-apr-1988/339807/17 "2006-01-17T00:58:46Z")
> [@John W. Kennedy](#): > > He said it in the first place – it’s called “The Message”. It’s available online, which is why, even though I never heard of it before, I was able to diagnose it as heavily paraphrased. For what its worth, I have and read from “The Message” at times as well. if you google it, you’ll find all kinds of “controversy” over it, by and large from hardcore conservatives vs. more "liberal’ christians, and the big argument is that the paraphrase is too “loose” or, more basically, it IS just a paraphrase, and not a translation, and so it shouldn’t be used. My take on it is I think it can help a person (re)think particular verses. I’ve mainly read the NIV, and it is refreshing to read a verse w/ different wording. I think the back cover of the message says it best as far as the intentions of this paraphrase: “One of the most striking features of the New Testament is that it was written in the street language of the day-- the idiom of the playground and marketplace, not the formal, lofty languaged of government decrees and historical documents. Written in the rhythms and idiom of contemporary language-- the way you’d talk with friends, write a letter, or discuss politics-- the message brings out the expressive, earthy flavor of the new testament.” this verse in question (mark 12:4) is a good example… [blueletterbible.org](http://blueletterbible.org) has a greek concordance which is nice because it’s word for word (phrase for phrase) so you can see what greek word corresponds to what english word. the “handled shamefully” (or 'tarred and feathered" in message) corresponds to Pronunciation Guide atimoo {at-ee-mo’-o} 1. to dishonour, mark with disgrace Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 1 AV - handle shamefully 1; 1 I think , as stated by the Message’s “intent”-- it makes perfect sense to use the phrase “tarred and feathered” , as that would certainly be one way to send someone away visible dishonored/marked with disgrace. (NIV just says “treated shamefully”). also note that this greek word is only used one time, and it occurs in this verse… so , again , it seems pretty worthwhile to use a “zany” (para)phrase like tarred and feathered because it also is a pretty rare/specialized term. anyway… my $0.02 on the whole thing, and perhaps a pitch for the message- w/ a grain of salt- I do think its worth reading the message in conjunction w/ other translations, but it is a good study tool, or as I said, a way to help a person re-think a verse. ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-tarred-and-feathered-29-apr-1988/339807/18 "2006-01-17T11:28:04Z")
> [@naita](#): > > I think maybe the full question was supposed to be interpreted as “What is in the Greek then?”. Oh, you want the [the next thread over](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=353943)… ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-tarred-and-feathered-29-apr-1988/339807/19 "2006-01-17T13:11:27Z")
> [@bdb777](#): > > I think , as stated by the Message’s “intent”-- it makes perfect sense to use the phrase “tarred and feathered” , as that would certainly be one way to send someone away visible dishonored/marked with disgrace. (NIV just says “treated shamefully”). also note that this greek word is only used one time, and it occurs in this verse… so , again , it seems pretty worthwhile to use a “zany” (para)phrase like tarred and feathered because it also is a pretty rare/specialized term. All very well, _but_–it makes it useless in answering the question, “How old is the practice of tar-and-feathering?” which is how it came up here in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![SiXSwordS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@SiXSwordS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SiXSwordS)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-tarred-and-feathered-29-apr-1988/339807/20 "2006-01-17T17:10:12Z")
> [@John W. Kennedy](#): > > All very well, _but_–it makes it useless in answering the question, “How old is the practice of tar-and-feathering?” which is how it came up here in the first place. Again, I’m not sure this should be in a new thread, but I did find one site that conflicts with Cecil’s statement: > [@](#): > > Tarring and feathering may have been bizarro, Sherm, but it’s no fable. One of the stranger manifestations of the _ **American** _ propensity for mob violence, the practice dates back to at least 1740 emphasis mine > [@](#): > > [Tarring and feathering](http://www.historywiz.com/didyouknow/tarringandfeathering.htm) was a punishment that went back to the Middle Ages with Richard the Lionhearted and the Crusades. The first record is in 1189. Richard ordered that any robber voyaging with the crusaders “shall be first shaved, then boiling pitch shall be poured upon his head, and a cushion of feathers shook over it.” I’m interested in the possibility that it was a British punishment _before_ it was American. (Assuming this site has any credibility.) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-tarred-and-feathered-29-apr-1988/339807.md?page=2)