# Re: the closing of Czarcasm - why are you still a mod? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [August 23, 2011, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-closing-of-czarcasm-why-are-you-still-a-mod/593759 "2011-08-23T10:47:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-closing-of-czarcasm-why-are-you-still-a-mod/593759/1 "2011-08-23T10:47:16Z")
The last two posts in [that thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=620909) were by \*\*C K Dexter Haven \*\*and **Gary “Wombat” Robson** , who closed the thread. The former said > [@](#): > > The purpose of complaints about moderator actions in ATMB is to allow posters to express differences of opinions about moderator actions. Personal insults are NOT permitted to be directed at moderators or anyone else. > > The thread title here and this very thread are offensive and insulting. I and the other mods have let this bullshit go on long enough. Complaints about moderator actions are one thing; the tone and level of crap in this thread are something quite else. If you can’t discuss politely and courteously, go the hell to a different message board. > > Pseudotriton ruber ruber, I have issued an Official Warning – your comment in post #39 is an insult and crosses the line. Yeah, it’s just one toe across the line, but it’s one toe too many from you. You were violating are rule about “don’t be a jerk.” > > I’m sure you will start a shit storm about my daring to slap your wrist. I double-dog dare you to say nothing, take it like a man, and move on. I triple-dog dare you. I have re-read the thread, and I can see no insults or unnecessarily agressive action by posters. If anyone can point out where I am mistaken, I will be grateful. I can see criticisms of his actions as a moderator, and of his posting style, which is what ATMB is for. But no insults or ‘bad language’ - until C K Dexter Haven’s post: “bullshit…crap…hell…”, and then taunting a poster he has given a warning to. It seemed controlled and fair until his extraordinary outburst. I can understand mods wanting to come to the defence of their colleagues, but he was doing exactly what he was criticising everyone else of doing. While the thread was in progress, I did agree with\*\* Nzinga, Seated\*\* who said > [@](#): > > Well at this point he may just be a nervous wreck. Moderators have to make decisions, and sometimes they make wrong decisions. Moderators are people, subject to the same flaws as the rest of us, but they are, and I believe should be held to higher standards when acting as mods. If posters have issues, surely the best course of action is for the mod in question to join in the discussion in a civil way to explain his actions, without being curt or dismissive. If posters become too aggressive, the the mod will demonstrably be holding the higher moral ground. As has been shown in this contretemps, ignoring it will not make it go away. While C K Dexter Haven is clearly outraged at the criticism, that is something that inevitably comes with the job, and dealing with the consequences in a way that dampens down the fire, rather than inflaming it, must surely also be part of the way the job should be done successfully. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-closing-of-czarcasm-why-are-you-still-a-mod/593759/2 "2011-08-23T12:32:10Z")
Hear, hear. What Czarcasm did was stupid; what Dex did made it worse. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Ostrya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/35a633/32.png) [@Ostrya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ostrya)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-closing-of-czarcasm-why-are-you-still-a-mod/593759/3 "2011-08-23T13:12:53Z")
Czarcasm’s at it again, squelching the discussion in IMHO. The very starter of the thread wished to discuss with people their answers, got this note from Czarcasm. [9afterlife belief poll - thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=620966) > [@](#): > > **Moderator Note** > > Since you and 2ManyTacos have voted and explained your votes in posts, could the both of you(and interested others) take this continued conversation and start a new thread, perhaps in Great Debates? > Thank you. Why can’t people have a discussion in Humble Opinion without some moderator intervening? ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-closing-of-czarcasm-why-are-you-still-a-mod/593759/4 "2011-08-23T13:26:01Z")
There is clearly a major disconnect between what the proletariat expect and what our overlords demand. Incidentally, I sent a PM to both \*\*TubaDiva \*\*and \*\*Czarcasm \*\*asking them about whether or not there is a rule about commenting in polls. I got an answer from TubaDiva, but not Czarcasm. Now, it’s possible that they got together and agreed that only one would reply, but it’s equally possible that that wasn’t the case. ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-closing-of-czarcasm-why-are-you-still-a-mod/593759/5 "2011-08-23T13:35:49Z")
Actually, it might be relevant to quote part of TubaDiva’s response to my PM. > [@](#): > > This was an unusual situation – in fact, I don’t ever remember seeing this before. Could it happen again? I don’t know, I didn’t expect it this time. The constant on this board is the opportunity to be surprised. > > IMHO is/should be just that, opinion. It’s not about debating issues, that’s Great Debates. Sometimes differing points of opinion tilts over into debate and the thread gets closed or moved, as appropriate. Like I’ve said, the mod doing the actual remonstrating hasn’t replied. ---
**Author:** ![Implicit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Implicit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Implicit)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-closing-of-czarcasm-why-are-you-still-a-mod/593759/6 "2011-08-23T14:24:10Z")
> [@the lone cashew](#): > > Czarcasm’s at it again, squelching the discussion in IMHO. The very starter of the thread wished to discuss with people their answers, got this note from Czarcasm. [9afterlife belief poll - thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=620966) > Why can’t people have a discussion in Humble Opinion without some moderator intervening? I’m starting to wonder if all this piling on stems from people’s confusion or disagreement with the structural organization of the board. There _are_ different subforums for different kinds of discussion. Why the resistance to opening a new thread with a quote and a link from the original one when the discussion overflows? No one was sent to bed without their supper, they were asked to move the discussion to the appropriate forum. > [@](#): > > **Great Debates** > For long-running discussions of the great questions of our time. This is also the place for religious debates and (if you feel you must) witnessing. Why do you think it’s unreasonable to ask posters open a new thread to witness and continue their religious discussion in Great Debates? Would your reaction be the same if a Cafe Society thread about a movie or book spawned a page of debate about the afterlife? If so, then you have an issue with the existence of subforums, not moderation. If not, then you perhaps you are misunderstanding the scope of the IMHO subforum. ---
**Author:** ![Ostrya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/35a633/32.png) [@Ostrya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ostrya)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-closing-of-czarcasm-why-are-you-still-a-mod/593759/7 "2011-08-23T14:32:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Why the resistance to opening a new thread with a quote and a link from the original one when the discussion overflows? Because there is nothing wrong with discussing it in the existing thread. And this is not an example of a hijack, the very starter of the thread wished to discuss the answers. We all know the Debate forum exists. Does that mean that discussion can not also be had in My Opinion? ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-closing-of-czarcasm-why-are-you-still-a-mod/593759/8 "2011-08-23T14:34:12Z")
I think one of the problems here is trying to agree on what is discussion, and what is debating. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-closing-of-czarcasm-why-are-you-still-a-mod/593759/9 "2011-08-23T14:43:10Z")
> [@NineToTheSky](#): > > I think one of the problems here is trying to agree on what is discussion, and what is debating. And since that’s going to be a judgment call about 99.9999% of the time, I would think it should be handled gently and with a good deal of patience and forbearance by the Mods. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-closing-of-czarcasm-why-are-you-still-a-mod/593759/10 "2011-08-23T14:55:31Z")
> [@NineToTheSky](#): > > I think one of the problems here is trying to agree on what is discussion, and what is debating. Indeed. An opinions thread means there are going to be _different_ opinions. It’s absolutely childish to say that one _can’t respond in any way_ to someone else’s opinion. Posters have been chided for doing so even without taking an adversarial position, even without necessarily _disagreeing_! What’s the point of an opinion “forum” if people can’t talk _about_ opinions, as well as simply stating them? ---
**Author:** ![Implicit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Implicit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Implicit)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-closing-of-czarcasm-why-are-you-still-a-mod/593759/11 "2011-08-23T15:01:47Z")
> [@the lone cashew](#): > > Because there is nothing wrong with discussing it in the existing thread. So witnessing is fine in General Questions too? I’ll repeat myself: there are different subforums for different kinds of discussions. > [@](#): > > And this is not an example of a hijack, the very starter of the thread wished to discuss the answers. No one said it was a hijack, the discussion expanded beyond the scope of the IMHO forum. > [@](#): > > We all know the Debate forum exists. Does that mean that discussion can not also be had in My Opinion? I assume it means that **debate** can not also be had in IMHO. See the pasted excerpt from TubaDiva’s PM in post #5. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-closing-of-czarcasm-why-are-you-still-a-mod/593759/12 "2011-08-23T15:10:48Z")
Actually, the official descriptions of GD and IMHO suggest that the intended difference is in the weight of the subject (“great” versus “less-than-cosmic”), not the structure or tone of the discussion. GD is presented as the place for _great_ debates, not the only place for debate. > [@](#): > > **Great Debates** > For long-running discussions of the great questions of our time. This is also the place for religious debates and (if you feel you must) witnessing. > > **In My Humble Opinion** > “What’s your favorite …?” For frank exchanges of views on less-than-cosmic topics. This is also the place for polling. A “frank exchange of views” still sounds, potentially, pretty contentious–and a great debate can still be a civil “discussion.” If the difference is now reconceived as one of _tone_ and (presence or absence of) adversarialism, these should probably be rewritten. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-closing-of-czarcasm-why-are-you-still-a-mod/593759/13 "2011-08-23T15:25:52Z")
> [@Implicit](#): > > Why do you think it’s unreasonable to ask posters open a new thread to witness and continue their religious discussion in Great Debates? It’s not unreasonable, it’s just unnecessary. The walls of Jericho are not going to come crashing down because the mods allowed a somewhat “heavy” discussion to remain in IMHO. Now that a mod note has been made, everybody participating has to walk on eggshells. Do I respond to someone’s post? Do I post at all? It stifles participation, which is not the point of having a message board. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-closing-of-czarcasm-why-are-you-still-a-mod/593759/14 "2011-08-23T15:28:52Z")
Life gets a lot easier when you just accept that the mods are Teflon, nothing they do sticks, no matter how egregious. And ATMB is a just jerk circle for you to let off your righteous outrage. They are never going to do anything other than just let you vent. If you just accept that this is how it is, truly, things become clearer and life is much easier. Save your breath. It couldn’t be clearer, in my opinion. They don’t really care what we think, including the mods, admins and Ed. Yes, it’s a unique business model where they whine and complain about not generating profit, at the same time they piss off the people who are paying to belong. It doesn’t make sense, but pretty clearly that’s how it is. My latest policy is to just leave any thread where a mod has given discussion directions. In my experience, they seem to be just waiting, with a hair trigger, for the next person to post so they can issue a warning, merited or not. It’s always the same, the next poster gets accused of being defiant, and their post, regardless of it’s content, gets twisted into, ‘not following mod directions’. It’s easier to just back out. Is it a crying shame? Absolutely. Is it going to change? Absolutely not. So do yourself a favour and just let it go, truly, they don’t care how we feel or what we think. ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-closing-of-czarcasm-why-are-you-still-a-mod/593759/15 "2011-08-23T15:32:05Z")
I would be very grateful if any mod or admin - or Ed - would care to respond to **elbow** ’s post above. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-closing-of-czarcasm-why-are-you-still-a-mod/593759/16 "2011-08-23T15:49:45Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > My latest policy is to just leave any thread where a mod has given discussion directions. In my experience, they seem to be just waiting, with a hair trigger, for the next person to post so they can issue a warning, merited or not. It’s always the same, the next poster gets accused of being defiant, and their post, regardless of it’s content, gets twisted into, ‘not following mod directions’. It’s easier to just back out. This is my new policy in poll threads. In fact I’m reluctant to post at all in poll threads anymore. > [@NineToTheSky](#): > > I think one of the problems here is trying to agree on what is discussion, and what is debating. It seems at least in poll threads it’s: discussion = stating your opinion. debate = discussing an opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-closing-of-czarcasm-why-are-you-still-a-mod/593759/17 "2011-08-23T15:57:07Z")
Everything from post 3 on seems to be a completely different topic than the first 2 posts. Maybe it should be a different thread, with a title that actually describes the topic? Like “Why can’t we discuss opinions in IMHO” or something? ---
**Author:** ![TubaDiva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tubadiva/32/507_2.png) [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-closing-of-czarcasm-why-are-you-still-a-mod/593759/18 "2011-08-23T16:05:49Z")
> [@NineToTheSky](#): > > I would be very grateful if any mod or admin - or Ed - would care to respond to **elbow** ’s post above. What is there to say to a comment of that nature? “Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.” Elbows is entitled to his opinion. He’s entitled to express it – especially since he did so in a civil manner. Is it a fair assessment of the situation? No. Can I convince you otherwise? Probably not. Mostly people come to this subject with their minds made up. For those who see us as unreasonable, capricious, Evil Nazi Mods, nothing we can say would be sufficient. Sometimes we hit the mark exactly. Sometimes we’re a little off. Sometimes we whiff entirely. We strive to do better. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-closing-of-czarcasm-why-are-you-still-a-mod/593759/19 "2011-08-23T16:14:14Z")
> [@TubaDiva](#): > > unreasonable, capricious, Evil Nazi Mods Godwin strawman answer of the day. So far. ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-closing-of-czarcasm-why-are-you-still-a-mod/593759/20 "2011-08-23T16:15:57Z")
> [@TubaDiva](#): > > What is there to say to a comment of that nature? > > “Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.” > > Elbows is entitled to his opinion. He’s entitled to express it – especially since he did so in a civil manner. Is it a fair assessment of the situation? No. Can I convince you otherwise? Probably not. > > Mostly people come to this subject with their minds made up. For those who see us as unreasonable, capricious, Evil Nazi Mods, nothing we can say would be sufficient. > > Sometimes we hit the mark exactly. Sometimes we’re a little off. Sometimes we whiff entirely. We strive to do better. Thank you (again) for responding. Believe me, I’m open to you trying to convince me. And if it’s reasonable, it won’t be difficult to convince me. My mind is far from made up. My purpose in opening this thread is to find answers. Can you, therefore explain why it’s not a fair assessment? I realise that you probably can’t speak for Czarcasm, but I also don’t understand why he is not involved in this. ETA: You don’t whiff. You are fragrant. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-closing-of-czarcasm-why-are-you-still-a-mod/593759.md?page=2)