# re the mole people **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [December 9, 2016, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-mole-people/774266 "2016-12-09T11:43:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![occsafmedic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/58f4c7/32.png) [@occsafmedic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/occsafmedic)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-mole-people/774266/1 "2016-12-09T11:43:05Z")
I am a retired NYC Paramedic-- and can affirm from direct experience that there are numerous communities of people living in train tunnels, abandoned stations , large vaults, switch room and so forth—bad enough that the cops don’t go in in groups smaller than 12. There are entire abandoned lines, as well as many abandoned stations-- with water and power-- so they are viable living spaces. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-mole-people/774266/2 "2016-12-09T11:54:39Z")
Since the board software doesn’t automatically generate a link to the column, I provided one so others can follow along. [Are there really “Mole People” living under the streets of New York City?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2488/are-there-really-mole-people-living-under-the-streets-of-new-york-city) ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-mole-people/774266/3 "2016-12-09T19:57:40Z")
Please name two or three of these “abandoned stations-- with water and power,” and let us know where, exactly, they are located. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-mole-people/774266/4 "2016-12-14T22:30:24Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > Please name two or three of these “abandoned stations-- with water and power,” and let us know where, exactly, they are located. Don’t hold your breath waiting for an answer. The last post before this one by the OP was in 2001, and he never returned to the thread he started then. ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-mole-people/774266/5 "2016-12-21T19:33:59Z")
I always think of this song (even though it has little to do with the MP): [The Mole People - YouTube](http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fH2CSiWF7t0). A lovely “where would I be without you, baby?” song. (Spoiler: he’d be living underground.) I enjoyed Toth’s book, and was disappointed when I first encountered the various debunkings. There’s been a similar case of too-good-to-be-true ethnography/sociology recently: Alice Goffman. These blog posts from Paul Campos at LGM summarize the case well (start with the oldest): [http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/?s=Goffman+&x=0&y=0](http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/?s=Goffman+&x=0&y=0) ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-mole-people/774266/6 "2016-12-22T03:00:17Z")
Apparently, they do exist to a degree. > **[The Truth About New York’s Legendary 'Mole People'](https://narratively.com/the-truth-about-new-yorks-legendary-mole-people/)** > > Two decades after NYC sought to relocate its infamous tunnel-dwelling denizens, a years-long investigation reveals a few hardy souls still toiling and thriving beneath the city. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-mole-people/774266/7 "2016-12-22T19:14:38Z")
I saw the Mole People on the Adventures of Superman. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-mole-people/774266/8 "2016-12-22T20:11:14Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I saw the Mole People on the Adventures of Superman. My dog barks at the invisible ones. I too, enjoyed the book, whether they exist or not. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-mole-people/774266/9 "2016-12-22T20:14:45Z")
And **TriPolar** , let’s not forget that epic cinematic classic “[The Mole People](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049516/?ref_=nv_sr_1)”. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-mole-people/774266/10 "2016-12-22T20:35:11Z")
The blinding light of Ishtar! ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-mole-people/774266/11 "2016-12-23T02:35:12Z")
It’s been a while since I watched it, but [this film](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Days_(film)) seemed to document one instance. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-mole-people/774266/12 "2016-12-24T21:04:49Z")
Nevermind New York. There is plenty of other cities with well documented cases of many homeless people living underground including some with social hierarchies. Vice is pretty good in covering this stuff. > **[Sewers of Bogota](https://www.vice.com/en/article/5gdwg3/sewers-of-bogota)** > > Baby Balls ventures into the sewer system of Bogota, Colombia, where the city’s crack-addicted children seek shelter from the paramilitary death squads prowling the streets. > **[Inside the Tunnels Las Vegas's Homeless Population Calls Home](https://www.vice.com/en/article/znwyd8/inside-the-tunnels-las-vegass-homeless-population-calls-home)** > > In the 1990s, the Hydro Conduit Corporation began building storm-drainage tunnels in Las Vegas to protect the tourist destination from raging flash floods. Today, the tunnels house the city's homeless population. > **[Going Underground with the Homeless of Ulan Bator](https://www.vice.com/en/article/jmvwwb/going-underground-with-the-drunks-in-ulan-bator-with-mikel-aristregi)** > > Mikel Aristregi's new series documents the desolate homeless people of Ulan Bator, Mongolia, who attempt to escape the bone-chilling cold by living in the intricate underground tunnels that house the city's hot water pipes, while getting wasted off... > **[Beneath the streets of Romania’s capital, a living hell](https://www.channel4.com/news/romania-tunnels-bucharest-orphans-photo)** > > Deep under the streets of Bucharest - in Europe, in the 21st century - there is a network of tunnels and sewers that is home to hundreds of men, women and children stricken by drug abuse HIV and TB. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-mole-people/774266/13 "2017-01-02T00:48:11Z")
Its hard for me to believe with the high cost of housing in New York that any such places would be found out by the owners, or want to be owners, who would clear out such areas and turn them into condos or businesses. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-mole-people/774266/14 "2017-01-02T01:36:23Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Its hard for me to believe with the high cost of housing in New York that any such places would be found out by the owners, or want to be owners, who would clear out such areas and turn them into condos or businesses. Turn a subway tunnel into a condo? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-mole-people/774266/15 "2017-01-02T11:06:30Z")
\*“Once in a lifetime opportunity to live in a liquid waste transit tunnel facility !” Close to the Subway. \* ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2017, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-mole-people/774266/16 "2017-04-10T04:54:31Z")
The populations are self limiting… to about one. One person lives in one room and toilets in the other. he knows the smell is his own. Another person lives nearby, the rule then is “if you poop anywhere near you, you are dead”. Soon, the population returns to one. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2017, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-mole-people/774266/17 "2017-04-28T01:16:07Z")
Every time I see the thread title, I read it as “the molé people,” and I think, “You mean Mexicans? Is that the name of a food truck?” ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2017, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-mole-people/774266/18 "2017-04-28T03:01:35Z")
They’ll still live underground 1000 years from now, only they’ll all be horribly mutated. My cite is the documentary series _Futurama_ ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2017, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-mole-people/774266/19 "2017-04-28T05:08:44Z")
FWIW, here’s **Cecil** ’s [followup column](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2498/em-the-mole-people-em-revisited) in which he takes Jennifer Toth (author of _The Mole People_) to task for being full of shit. The original column linked upthread remains a credulous embarrassment. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-mole-people/774266/20 "2017-04-28T17:12:53Z")
Given that you can find in any urban area collections and encampments of homeless, I find it fully credible there are people who are using any abandoned area, including abandoned subway tunnels. In Dallas, they form giant camps under large interstate bridges. Recently one big one was finally disbanded by the city. Of course, what do all these people do now? They certainly all aren’t put in public housing or anything. No, they just disperse around the city and find new places to camp. Or they get shipped to outlying suburbs with “more resources”. Toth’s claims may be loaded with bogusness, but others have documented the existence of homeless living in these tunnels. “Mole people” is sufficiently vague to allow it’s use for homeless who prefer to sit in camp and let others do collecting and such. However, the more exotic descriptions are most certainly false. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-mole-people/774266.md?page=2)