# Re the NO mess why are there no urban militas? Most seem to be quasi-rural **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 17, 2005, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-no-mess-why-are-there-no-urban-militas-most-seem-to-be-quasi-rural/322120 "2005-09-17T17:02:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-no-mess-why-are-there-no-urban-militas-most-seem-to-be-quasi-rural/322120/1 "2005-09-17T17:02:40Z")
Re the breakdown of the NO social order after Katrina, with even police becoming somewhat feral or abadoning their posts, it seems (in hindsight) that cities might be a place where they could be most useful. Are city folk just not milita inclined? Do urban gun regs prevent reasonable self arming? Are city dwellers simply used to having others do for them, and when this fails they’re helpless? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-no-mess-why-are-there-no-urban-militas-most-seem-to-be-quasi-rural/322120/2 "2005-09-17T17:20:31Z")
[At 25, the Guardian Angels are now on global patrol](http://www.jrn.columbia.edu/studentwork/cns/2004-02-16/392.asp) [http://www.guardianangels.org/history.html](http://www.guardianangels.org/history.html) ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-no-mess-why-are-there-no-urban-militas-most-seem-to-be-quasi-rural/322120/3 "2005-09-17T17:47:17Z")
Interesting. Thanks for the link! I’d forgotten about them. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-no-mess-why-are-there-no-urban-militas-most-seem-to-be-quasi-rural/322120/4 "2005-09-17T17:55:00Z")
Most rural militias seem to be places where people get together to shoot guns and maybe engage in some Walter Mitty type fantasies about fighting the New World Order. The strict gun control laws in most urban areas (so effective in reducing urban gun violence) would put a damper on the party pretty quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-no-mess-why-are-there-no-urban-militas-most-seem-to-be-quasi-rural/322120/5 "2005-09-17T17:56:08Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Re the breakdown of the NO social order after Katrina, with even police becoming somewhat feral or abadoning their posts, it seems (in hindsight) that cities might be a place where they could be most useful. Are city folk just not milita inclined? Do urban gun regs prevent reasonable self arming? Are city dwellers simply used to having others do for them, and when this fails they’re helpless? Are gangs a form of urban militia? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-no-mess-why-are-there-no-urban-militas-most-seem-to-be-quasi-rural/322120/6 "2005-09-17T18:52:27Z")
Actually, gangs do kind of serve as an urban militia. The Crips were founded in response to police brutality and unresponsiveness. Althought now gang activity (which is pretty low except for certain international highly organzied gangs) is largely dedicated to keeping illegal economies running- e.g. staking out and defending drug sales territory, it is concievable that they could revert back to their earlier more beneign purposes in some situations. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-no-mess-why-are-there-no-urban-militas-most-seem-to-be-quasi-rural/322120/7 "2005-09-17T18:52:33Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Are gangs a form of urban militia? Wel… from my white bread, sitting on my rear end in my suburban house perspective I would tend to characterize them as more of a socially chaotic element, but maybe … I don’t know? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-no-mess-why-are-there-no-urban-militas-most-seem-to-be-quasi-rural/322120/8 "2005-09-17T20:19:55Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > Actually, gangs do kind of serve as an urban militia. The Crips were founded in response to police brutality and unresponsiveness. Althought now gang activity (which is pretty low except for certain international highly organzied gangs) is largely dedicated to keeping illegal economies running- e.g. staking out and defending drug sales territory, it is concievable that they could revert back to their earlier more beneign purposes in some situations. Where are you getting this from. The accounts I’ve read, including some by former gang members, suggest that LA gangs got started as a bunch of kids in a neighborhood bonding together and getting in feuds with gangs from other neighborhoods. Certainly they never challenged the police in any real way other than the LA riots, which could hardly be called benign, and occured more than a decade after the Crips and Bloods were formed. I don’t live in LA, and there’s no comparison between LA’s gangs and DC’s crews, which were never anything other than drug enterprises. But I’ve never heard of LA’s gangs performing any sort of vigilante law enforcement. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2005, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-no-mess-why-are-there-no-urban-militas-most-seem-to-be-quasi-rural/322120/9 "2005-09-18T03:11:47Z")
[This](http://www.nagia.org/Crips_and_Bloods.htm) is a facinating article on a facinating site. What we think of when we think of Black Street Gangs are the decendents of neighborhood family-oriented organizations that began to fight with white racist gangs, as well as politcal organizations like the Black Panthers. For various reason- and there is more than a little speculation on this- many of these organziations turned on each other instead of fighting the forced they started out against. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2005, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-the-no-mess-why-are-there-no-urban-militas-most-seem-to-be-quasi-rural/322120/10 "2005-09-18T03:28:10Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > [This](http://www.nagia.org/Crips_and_Bloods.htm) is a facinating article on a facinating site. What we think of when we think of Black Street Gangs are the decendents of neighborhood family-oriented organizations that began to fight with white racist gangs, as well as politcal organizations like the Black Panthers. For various reason- and there is more than a little speculation on this- many of these organziations turned on each other instead of fighting the forced they started out against. That is pretty interesting. Thanks.