# Re-watching "Seinfeld" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted\ **Created:** [July 10, 2024, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-watching-seinfeld/1003983 "2024-07-10T03:29:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2024, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-watching-seinfeld/1003983/1 "2024-07-10T03:29:37Z")
Since there’s an old thread called re-watching _Friends_ that gets periodically revived, I thought there should be a “re-watching _Seinfeld_” thread, especially since Seinfeld was the original and broke new ground in TV sitcoms. Jerry Seinfeld has been vocal about his belief **[that _Friends_ was derived directly from _Seinfeld_](https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/jerry-seinfeld-accused-friends-creators-of-ripping-off-his-show-with-better-looking-people.html/)**, and Larry David agrees with him. Anyway, I felt the need for some good comedy lately, so I’ve been binge-watching my entire collection of _Seinfeld_, skipping a few episodes that I didn’t care for. Quite the binge – there were a total of 180 episodes over 9 seasons. The distribution is uneven because NBC cautiously funded only 5 episodes in the first season for this experimental new idea, and then sprung for 12 more – basically half a regular season – for the second year. By the third season NBC bought into full seasons, and soon it was the most popular show on TV. I made some disparaging comments in another thread about some aspects of the series (I thought it was getting a bit self-important once it achieved major success) and about Jerry himself for various reasons that aren’t relevant here. But in watching it again after many years – and especially binge-watching and getting big doses of it at once – I’m reminded of its comedic brilliance and am more kindly disposed to it. Lots of it is laugh-out-loud funny and brilliantly creative. I’m right back to being the same big fan I was in the 90s. Even Jerry’s atrocious acting is somehow forgivable when one sees that in the two-part episode _The Pilot_, the premise is that although real actors are being auditioned to play George, Elaine, and Kramer, Jerry plays himself, and studio execs are complaining about how terrible his acting is. They wrote that right into the show. Jerry’s smirky acting incompetence somehow became its own _schtick_, funny in its own right. I’m having a ball re-watching this, and discovering that there were apparently some episodes I hadn’t yet seen. Fell through the cracks, somehow. _Seinfeld_ was one of those rare serendipitous moments in television history where the perfect confluence of great writing and exactly the right actors resulted in something unique that was far greater than the sum of its parts. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2024, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-watching-seinfeld/1003983/2 "2024-07-10T04:13:40Z")
I’ve been a regular Seinfeld watcher since it was originally on; it’s the show I watch basically every night before bed (I’m watching it right now (“The Pledge Drive,” S6E3)). After watching every episode, probably dozens of times, as well as watching every episode of “Curb Your Enthusiasm” a few times too, I feel like I’ve gotten a feel for both Jerry’s and Larry’s writing and I think I can actually tell where different ideas came from. Jerry’s got the wacky comedy (things like “But I don’t wanna be a pirate!” and Newman imagining Kramer as a juicy turkey). Larry has the more uncomfortable stuff (getting caught masturbating by your mother, slipping a mickey to your boss). The show became much more wacky in seasons 8 and 9 after Larry left. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. Some of my favorite episodes are from these seasons actually. Larry and Jerry really had a Lennon/McCartney magic. They seemed to bring out the best in each other. I imagine they made each other laugh a lot during the show, and probably just had a blast doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2024, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-watching-seinfeld/1003983/3 "2024-07-10T06:52:26Z")
I just love Kramer. That dude kills me. He reminds me of someone I know(and you know as well). Some of the stuff is a little dated but I laugh everytime I watch an episode. ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2024, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-watching-seinfeld/1003983/4 "2024-07-10T12:42:22Z")
He got me with, " what do they look like? They look exactly like keys!" ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2024, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-watching-seinfeld/1003983/5 "2024-07-10T12:48:06Z")
Seinfeld was one of our road trip series that lived in the RV. There isn’t much to do in the evenings at a campground unless you’re into breathing campfire smoke and swatting mosquitoes. We usually watched either Seinfeld or Larry Sanders episodes. The latter was truly brilliant comedy. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2024, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-watching-seinfeld/1003983/6 "2024-07-10T13:08:48Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Jerry Seinfeld has been vocal about his belief **[that _Friends_ was derived directly from _Seinfeld_](https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/jerry-seinfeld-accused-friends-creators-of-ripping-off-his-show-with-better-looking-people.html/)**, and Larry David agrees with him. I feel this is nonsense. You might as well say both series were a ripoff of _All in the Family_ or _Barney MIller_ or _The Odd Couple_ (“Hey look, it’s another sitcom about a bunch of people living in New York City”). The big thing about _Seinfeld_ was its willingness to make its characters unlikeable, which was unusual in American sitcoms. _Friends_ did not do that; they went in the more traditional direction and made their characters likeable. But _Seinfeld_ didn’t invent this idea. Because I specified that what they did was unusual for American sitcoms. It was very common for British sitcoms to be filled with unlikeable characters. All _Seinfeld_ did was take that idea and move it to America. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2024, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-watching-seinfeld/1003983/7 "2024-07-10T13:13:13Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I feel this is nonsense. You might as well say both series were a ripoff of _All in the Family_ or _Barney MIller_ or _The Odd Couple_ (“Hey look, it’s another sitcom about a bunch of people living in New York City”). It is absolute utter nonsense. Friends was planned out as a long term story arc. Nothing like that existed in Seinfeld. Seinfeld was actually the opposite with it’s Show About Nothing concept. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2024, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-watching-seinfeld/1003983/8 "2024-07-10T13:23:47Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The big thing about _Seinfeld_ was its willingness to make its characters unlikeable, which was unusual in American sitcoms. _Friends_ did not do that; they went in the more traditional direction and made their characters likeable. > > But _Seinfeld_ didn’t invent this idea. Because I specified that what they did was unusual for American sitcoms. It was very common for British sitcoms to be filled with unlikeable characters. All _Seinfeld_ did was take that idea and move it to America. Actually, I’ve been watching _Cheers_ lately, for the first time in a very long time, and I’m often struck by how intentionally unlikable the characters there are, and how nasty they are to each other, at least in the early seasons. I think _Cheers_ plays a major part in _Seinfeld’s_ DNA. ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2024, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-watching-seinfeld/1003983/9 "2024-07-10T13:24:10Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Friends was planned out as a long term story arc How so? Even the writers said that Chandler and Monica getting together was based on the response from the audience. And given that Ross and Rachel was nothing much after about a season when they got together, I see no such long term plan. Sure, there was nothing for Seinfeld, but don’t give Friends the sort of credit attributed to Babylon 5. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2024, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-watching-seinfeld/1003983/10 "2024-07-10T16:38:07Z")
The Chandler and Monica story wasn’t planned ahead of time, but they had some relationship with Monica in mind and as partially reflected in the storyline they thought it would be Monica and Joey. They didn’t know for sure about Ross and Rachel but decided it would work early in production as they saw the Schwimmer and Aniston interact with each other. Seinfeld didn’t work like that at all. They tossed ideas of Jerry and Elaine resuming a relationship once the Elaine character was established. Notably they ended the continuing story about George and Susan by having Susan suddenly drop dead. There are considerably more differences between the shows also. Call Friends what you like but there is no reason to think it was ripping off Seinfeld. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2024, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-watching-seinfeld/1003983/11 "2024-07-10T16:55:19Z")
Loved the series, and use some things from it. When I make salads for dinner I call them Big Salads. When someone has a very quiet voice, I call them quiet talkers. And shrinkage. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2024, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-watching-seinfeld/1003983/12 "2024-07-10T17:16:22Z")
> [@George Costanza](#): > > The sea was angry that day, my friends - like an old man trying to send back soup in a deli… George as a whale-saving Marine Biologist, one of my favorite story lines of any sitcom ever. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2024, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-watching-seinfeld/1003983/13 "2024-07-10T17:31:24Z")
Ditto. George’s story that ends the episode deserves an award. There is little in the history of television on that level. Perhaps “…I thought turkeys could fly”, although that’s one line and Les Nessman’s narrative is the actual contender. There are few other brief television segments on this level. It was also unusual on the show in having George end up a winner, even casting aside Jerry’s interjection that a whale was a mammal. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2024, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-watching-seinfeld/1003983/14 "2024-07-10T17:35:50Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > After watching every episode, probably dozens of times, as well as watching every episode of “Curb Your Enthusiasm” a few times too, I feel like I’ve gotten a feel for both Jerry’s and Larry’s writing and I think I can actually tell where different ideas came from. Jerry’s got the wacky comedy (things like “But I don’t wanna be a pirate!” and Newman imagining Kramer as a juicy turkey). Larry has the more uncomfortable stuff (getting caught masturbating by your mother, slipping a mickey to your boss). The show became much more wacky in seasons 8 and 9 after Larry left. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. Some of my favorite episodes are from these seasons actually. That’s an astute observation and quite true, I think. Larry David did have a dark sense of humour while Seinfeld reveled in silliness. In my praise of the great writing and the perfect actors I also should have mentioned the synergy between Seinfeld and David that you pointed out, even if David wasn’t around for the last two seasons except for the finale. Regardless of who actually wrote the script for each episode, Seinfeld and David (and for most of seasons 8 and 9, Seinfeld alone) had a tremendous amount of influence in the writers’ room. Season 8 episode 10, “The Andrea Doria”, while not written by either of them, has Jerry’s wacky influence all over it. That’s the one where Kramer takes dog medicine for his cough, and soon starts acting like a dog. At one point Jerry has to entice Kramer into his car by jingling his keys and going “wanna go for a ride?”. There’s also a scene in which Kramer bites Newman’s ankle, and one where, Lassie-style, Kramer (who can’t speak because of his throat condition) attracts the attention of police (“what’s wrong, boy?”) and leads them to Monk’s restaurant where help is needed. That’s probably one of the most wacky off-the-wall episodes in the whole series, and perhaps indicative of starting to run out of original ideas, but I thought it was lots of fun, and the series shares the honour with very few others of very wisely deciding to close down after nine years despite still being enormously popular. Everyone wanted more, but the insiders knew the well was running dry. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2024, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-watching-seinfeld/1003983/15 "2024-07-10T17:37:42Z")
I always thought that was brilliant writing, in that it brought together the various storylines (George’s lies, Kramer playing golf) in one neat package. And then watching Curb Your Enthusiasm, I saw the same sort of thing. (Like in the season in which Larry takes a Broadway role as the lead actor of The Producers.) ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2024, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-watching-seinfeld/1003983/16 "2024-07-10T17:40:47Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Everyone wanted more, but the insiders knew the well was running dry. At the time, I subscribed to Businessweek and they ran an article that NBC offered Jerry Seinfeld $100 million to keep the show going for one more season. That was a ridiculous amount of money at the time. (Though in the end between broadcast syndication fees and streaming fees, Jerry, Larry and the other producers still made a ridiculous amount of money from the show.) ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2024, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-watching-seinfeld/1003983/17 "2024-07-10T17:41:44Z")
Serenity now! ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2024, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-watching-seinfeld/1003983/18 "2024-07-10T17:45:07Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > That’s the one where Kramer takes dog medicine for his cough, and soon starts acting like a dog. At one point Jerry has to entice Kramer into his car by jingling his keys and going “wanna go for a ride?”. There’s also a scene in which Kramer bites Newman’s ankle, and one where, Lassie-style, Kramer (who can’t speak because of his throat condition) attracts the attention of police (“what’s wrong, boy?”) and leads them to Monk’s restaurant where help is needed. Classic! But yeah that’s got Jerry’s fingerprints all over it. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2024, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-watching-seinfeld/1003983/19 "2024-07-10T17:48:13Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > > [@wolfpup](#): > > > > Everyone wanted more, but the insiders knew the well was running dry. > > At the time, I subscribed to Businessweek and they ran an article that NBC offered Jerry Seinfeld $100 million to keep the show going for one more season. That was a ridiculous amount of money at the time. (Though in the end between broadcast syndication fees and streaming fees, Jerry, Larry and the other producers still made a ridiculous amount of money from the show.) Jerry Seinfeld was keenly aware that the show was television history, and how important it was to go out on a high note. He was probably also aware of how much money there was to made from syndication and eventual DVD releases. There was a Seinfeld fan website that I participated in that for years lamented the lack of a DVD release, which was quite late in coming. Everyone went nuts when the first box set came out. I remember there was a “deluxe” set with various trinkets and memorabilia. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2024, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-watching-seinfeld/1003983/20 "2024-07-10T18:20:03Z")
The finale of Seinfeld got a lot of criticism. The characters stood back and watched that guy getting mugged, not stepping in to assist, and were then charged with violating a Good Samaritan law that required bystanders to assist. And then the finale of Curb Your Enthusiasm had Larry provided water to someone standing in line at a polling location. So it was a neat reversal of the Seinfeld finale in that Larry was being a good Samaritan. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-watching-seinfeld/1003983.md?page=2)