# Re: Why do men have nipples? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [February 21, 2003, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-why-do-men-have-nipples/156455 "2003-02-21T01:51:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Nim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/67e7ee/32.png) [@Nim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nim)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-why-do-men-have-nipples/156455/1 "2003-02-21T01:51:02Z")
[Why do men have nipples?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_093.html) Quote from Cecil: _“In other words, nipples are just one of those sexually neutral pieces of equipment, like arms or brains, that humans get regardless of sex.”_ Nipples are as sexually neutral as the uterus. The uterus is for having babies, the nipples are for nursing babies. And a non-functioning nipple is hardly “equipment.” Quote from Cecil: _“One interesting consequence of the developmental set-up just described is that during the very early stages of fetal life, before the sex hormones have had a chance to do their stuff, all humans are basically bisexual.”_ Other sources have said that before sex hormones have had a chance to do there stuff that the embryo isn’t bisexual but["following a female template."](http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/ask_doctor/nipples_men.shtml) Quote from Cecil: _“Trouble is, male nipples are hardly vestigial. They’re full-sized and fully equipped with blood vessels, nerves, and all the usual appurtenances of functioning organs.”_ “biology no longer functional: having become degenerate or functionless in the course of time. Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2003. © 1993-2002 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.” Mens nipples do not function. They may have helped breast feed in the past, but that definitely doesn’t go on now. I think this is a good definition of what vestigial is. It doesn’t matter if it has nerves or blood vessels. Our wisdom teeth are thought to be vestigial since our jaws are thought to have grown to small over time to accommodate them. But they still have all the usually things that our other teeth have. The pinky toe has been said to be vestigial too since we don’t climb trees anymore. Sure it has nerves and blood vessels but we don’t need them to walk. And as anyone can see, land animals that aren’t climbing trees tend to have four toes, not five. And in places where people don’t wear shoes a lot of the time they are missing there pinky toes. So not only do they not help our mobility but they can cause trouble. You’ll also notice on a dog and alike that there fifth digit has moved up there leg, it’s slowely disappearing because it has no use. But the vestigial dew claw still has blood vessels, nerves, skin, hair, etc… ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-why-do-men-have-nipples/156455/2 "2003-02-21T03:46:04Z")
Men have full-sized and fully functional milk glands, and, with the aid of hormone shots, and sometimes with nothing but raw need, men can and have lactated. The matter has been discussed time and time again on this forum. Oh, by the way, never trust anything you see in Encarta. It is a proven fact that the “facts” they publish are the “facts” they think readers will want to see. (What else would you expect from Gates?) ---
**Author:** ![Nim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/67e7ee/32.png) [@Nim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nim)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-why-do-men-have-nipples/156455/3 "2003-02-21T08:40:05Z")
Cecil and the link to the article at the BBC Health website that I provided both mentioned that. But no matter how developed my nipples are, they still do not function and still don’t serve me a purpose. It’s just a little bit of extra tissue for my body to waste some of its energy to maintain. And as I stated, there are other things considered to be vestigial which are functioning completely without our intervention. Also, do you have any examples of information that Encarta contains that is just composed of the “facts” they think readers will want to see? I always hear bad stuff about Microsoft, it wouldn’t surprise me. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-why-do-men-have-nipples/156455/4 "2003-02-21T16:04:37Z")
It came out some years ago that the different language editions of Encarta give different “facts” according to what is regarded as politically correct in the nations represented by those languages. Unfortunately, it’s almost impossible to track down the story on-line, now, because all the obvious keywords are so bloody common. Apparently a Microsoft executive, questioned about this on the BBC, replied that it was Encarta’s job to be useful rather than accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Eniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a698b9/32.png) [@Eniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eniac)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-why-do-men-have-nipples/156455/5 "2003-02-21T23:50:40Z")
Regarding comments re “not trusting Bill Gates” etc and Encarta. Hey people, the Gatesmeister may be untrustworth or even evil for that matter, but Encarta is simply the old Funk & Wagnells encyclopedia Billy bought with his lunch money. Martin Slater ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2003, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-why-do-men-have-nipples/156455/6 "2003-02-22T17:49:38Z")
So maybe it didn’t turn into crap until after he bought it; I don’t know. What I _do_ know is that it is a documented fact that Encarta deliberately tells lies to be more popular. There’s a phrase for that, especially when it’s done by adolescents. Since this discussion started with a parenthetical remark, and is off-topic to both this thread and this forum, I do not intend to take the subject any further. ---
**Author:** ![Indefatigable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9d8465/32.png) [@Indefatigable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indefatigable)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-why-do-men-have-nipples/156455/7 "2003-02-23T20:49:48Z")
_Men have full-sized and fully functional milk glands, and, with the aid of hormone shots, and sometimes with nothing but raw need, men can and have lactated._ With proper modifications (hormonal or otherwise), there are lots of useless things on our bodies that could become useful-- maybe we could harden our fingernails to make decent claws out of them. I’d say the milk glands in a man are just as vestigial as the nipples themselves, since they just don’t do anything unless we mess with them, i.e. stimulating them with hormone shots. (Where’d you hear about a man who lactated without any outside help?) ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-why-do-men-have-nipples/156455/8 "2003-02-24T00:35:28Z")
> [@](#): > > (Where’d you hear about a man who lactated without any outside help?) On one of the several previous threads on this subject right here. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-why-do-men-have-nipples/156455/9 "2003-02-24T02:11:20Z")
Some of the previous threads: [You’re wrong.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=85698&highlight=dayak) [SD Classic: re Male Nipples](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=133466&highlight=dayak) ---
**Author:** ![White\_Lightning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@White\_Lightning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/White_Lightning)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-why-do-men-have-nipples/156455/10 "2003-03-04T18:05:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by \*\*Nim \*\*\* > You’ll also notice on a dog and alike that there fifth digit has moved up there leg, it’s slowely disappearing because it has no use. Wouldn’t that fifth digit be a “thumb” that never became opposable? That’s what I’ve always taken them for. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-why-do-men-have-nipples/156455/11 "2003-03-04T22:14:14Z")
It would be nearer the mark to say that the thumb is a fifth digit which _did_ become opposable. ---
**Author:** ![Nim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/67e7ee/32.png) [@Nim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nim)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2003, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-why-do-men-have-nipples/156455/12 "2003-03-08T14:26:20Z")
Yeah it’s just a digit that never became useful to them. Saying that it’s a thumb that never became opposable is kind of like saying our thumb is a dewclaw that never receded. Both are beneficial adaptions of the fifth digit which originally was neither a thumb or a dewclaw. One should compare the paw to the hand like one would compare a screwdriver to a hammer. The screwdriver isn’t a hammer that never learned to hit nails. Their both great tools that are better for different jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Angilion2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac8455/32.png) [@Angilion2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angilion2)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2003, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-why-do-men-have-nipples/156455/13 "2003-03-08T17:10:57Z")
Since men and women are variations on the common theme of “adult human”, you’d expect a great deal of commonality. Which is precisely what you get, including nipples. Which can be functional in men, if the need arises. [http://freebirth.com/milkmen.htm](http://freebirth.com/milkmen.htm) BTW, the idea that all humans start off as female is just the first step on the way to claiming that maleness is a defect, a form of genetic disease (yes, there are people who believe that). Prior to the sexing process, human foetii are unsexed but have the potential to become either sex - the relevant cells could become either ovaries or testes and the rest of the sexing process continues from there (if all goes to plan). Even in adults, traces of this can be found, if the “other” ducts don’t disappear completely. [http://www.geocities.com/karyn\_ts/tech.htm](http://www.geocities.com/karyn_ts/tech.htm) To pick one example of many. Or just pick up a non-feminist book on human gestation. Key words to look up for yourself - Wolffian and Mullerian. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2003, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-why-do-men-have-nipples/156455/14 "2003-03-10T08:13:57Z")
While all humans start off unsexed, the default position is developing into a female. The site you link says several times > [@](#): > > "Because the typical female fetus is 46XX and does not have a Y chromosome, the master switch that leads to the development of male organs is not turned on. The fetus continues on what is considered the default path and in the thirteenth week the gonads start to transform into ovaries. Because no testes exist to produce male hormones, the remainder of the sexual system develops along a female path. The master switch is on the Y chromosome. If that master switch for some reason fails to activate, the default path is female. This is not in any way meant to justify extremist positions regarding males as “genetic defects”. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2003, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-why-do-men-have-nipples/156455/15 "2003-03-12T00:46:22Z")
> [@](#): > > The screwdriver isn’t a hammer that never learned to hit nails. When you’re desparate enough, and faced with an un-hammered nail, and no hammer, the screwdriver in your pocket gets a quick education on how to hit nails.